Hi all, I added a new section in the KIP to specify how to change the graduation levels for a feature.
Best! On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 4:01 PM Josep Prat <josep.p...@aiven.io> wrote: > Hi TengYao and Chia-Ping, > > I updated the KIP page with examples. > > Best, > > On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 2:39 PM TengYao Chi <kiting...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi Josep >> >> Thanks for the explanation. I see your point. >> It makes sense to keep these levels distinct for larger initiatives like >> KIP-853. I agree with your perspective. >> >> Best regards, >> TengYao >> >> Josep Prat <josep.p...@aiven.io.invalid> 於 2024年8月19日 週一 下午6:36寫道： >> >> > Hi TengYao, >> > >> > I get your point. I think smaller features definitely go too quickly >> > through stages to even acknowledge the change. >> > However, I would still think it's necessary to have these 2 levels >> > separated when it comes to bigger feature initiatives. The biggest use >> case >> > I see right now is to signal to the release manager (and the community) >> if >> > a feature is usable or not yet usable. I believe the fact to become >> usable >> > for a feature is a big enough step to gain its own entity. >> > >> > >> > Let's take KIP-853 as an example. This KIP was approved and initially >> added >> > to the release plan for Kafka 3.8. At this point the feature would be in >> > Level 1. By the time of the feature freeze the feature was still on >> Level >> > 1, so the release manager (who happened to be me) knew that the KIP >> would >> > not make it in this release and would need to be postponed to a future >> > release. After that, development on this feature continued and it was >> > declared to enter level 2 right in time for being in Kafka 3.9. >> > >> > Let me know what you think. >> > >> > Best, >> > >> > On Mon, Aug 19, 2024 at 8:51 AM TengYao Chi <kiting...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> > > Hello Josep, >> > > I think this KIP is a great addition to the community that we now >> have a >> > > crystal-clear definition for the state of a feature. >> > > >> > > In the current proposal, I think Level 1 is defined as the stage >> where a >> > > feature is "incomplete and unusable", while Level 2 represents a >> feature >> > > that is "usable but potentially incomplete". >> > > The distinction between these two levels might not always be clear, >> > > especially during the transition of a feature from "unusable" to >> "usable >> > > but incomplete". >> > > >> > > IMHO, to simplify the process and reduce confusion for both developers >> > and >> > > users, I would suggest merging Level 1 and Level 2 into a single >> unified >> > > level. >> > > This merged level could cover the entire phase from when a feature is >> > > unstable to when it becomes usable but incomplete. >> > > >> > > WYDT? >> > > >> > > Best regards, >> > > TengYao >> > > >> > > Josep Prat <josep.p...@aiven.io.invalid> 於 2024年8月19日 週一 上午2:58寫道： >> > > >> > > > Hi Chia-Ping, >> > > > >> > > > As far as I can tell, Tiered Storage is still at level 3. I think >> the >> > > > intention would be to declare it level 4 in 4.0.0. >> > > > KIP-848 was in level 2 in Kafka 3.7. and it went level 3 in Kafka >> 3.8. >> > > > Level 4 features would be for example MirrorMaker2 for example. As >> far >> > > as I >> > > > understand the Docker image is level 4. >> > > > >> > > > Does that make sense? If so I can update the KIP with those >> examples. >> > > > >> > > > Best, >> > > > >> > > > ------------------ >> > > > Josep Prat >> > > > Open Source Engineering Director, Aiven >> > > > josep.p...@aiven.io | +491715557497 | aiven.io >> > > > Aiven Deutschland GmbH >> > > > Alexanderufer 3-7, 10117 Berlin >> > > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa, Hannu Valtonen, >> > > > Anna Richardson, Kenneth Chen >> > > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B >> > > > >> > > > On Sun, Aug 18, 2024, 21:46 Chia-Ping Tsai <chia7...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > hi Josep >> > > > > >> > > > > Although I didn't join the discussion before, the KIP is >> interesting >> > > and >> > > > > great to me. >> > > > > >> > > > > one small comment: >> > > > > >> > > > > Could you please add existent features as an example to each level >> > for >> > > > the >> > > > > readers who have poor reading (like me) ? For instance, I guess >> the >> > new >> > > > > coordinator is level 3? tiered storage is level 4? >> > > > > >> > > > > Best, >> > > > > Chia-Ping >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > Josep Prat <josep.p...@aiven.io.invalid> 於 2024年8月19日 週一 >> 上午2:13寫道： >> > > > > >> > > > > > Hi all, >> > > > > > I want to start a discussion for KIP-1081: Graduation Steps for >> > > > Features. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-1081%3A+Graduation+Steps+for+Features >> > > > > > >> > > > > > We already had a bit of a discussion here >> > > > > > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/5z6rxvs9m0bro5ssmtg8qcgdk40882bz >> > and >> > > > > that >> > > > > > materialized into this KIP. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > I deliberately defined the graduation steps without giving them >> a >> > > name, >> > > > > so >> > > > > > we don't go bike-shedding there. There is a separate section for >> > the >> > > > > names >> > > > > > of each step. Also an alternative set of names. I'd like to get >> > some >> > > > > > feedback on the steps, and also on the names for the steps. >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Looking forward to your opinions, and hopefully only a tiny bit >> of >> > > > > > bike-shedding :) >> > > > > > >> > > > > > Best, >> > > > > > >> > > > > > -- >> > > > > > [image: Aiven] <https://www.aiven.io> >> > > > > > >> > > > > > *Josep Prat* >> > > > > > Open Source Engineering Director, *Aiven* >> > > > > > josep.p...@aiven.io | +491715557497 >> > > > > > aiven.io <https://www.aiven.io> | < >> > > > > https://www.facebook.com/aivencloud >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aiven/> < >> > > > > > https://twitter.com/aiven_io> >> > > > > > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* >> > > > > > Alexanderufer 3-7, 10117 Berlin >> > > > > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa, Hannu Valtonen, >> > > > > > Anna Richardson, Kenneth Chen >> > > > > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > [image: Aiven] <https://www.aiven.io> >> > >> > *Josep Prat* >> > Open Source Engineering Director, *Aiven* >> > josep.p...@aiven.io | +491715557497 >> > aiven.io <https://www.aiven.io> | < >> https://www.facebook.com/aivencloud >> > > >> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aiven/> < >> > https://twitter.com/aiven_io> >> > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* >> > Alexanderufer 3-7, 10117 Berlin >> > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa, Hannu Valtonen, >> > Anna Richardson, Kenneth Chen >> > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B >> > >> > > > -- > [image: Aiven] <https://www.aiven.io> > > *Josep Prat* > Open Source Engineering Director, *Aiven* > josep.p...@aiven.io | +491715557497 > aiven.io <https://www.aiven.io> | > <https://www.facebook.com/aivencloud> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aiven/> <https://twitter.com/aiven_io> > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* > Alexanderufer 3-7, 10117 Berlin > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa, Hannu Valtonen, > Anna Richardson, Kenneth Chen > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B > -- [image: Aiven] <https://www.aiven.io> *Josep Prat* Open Source Engineering Director, *Aiven* josep.p...@aiven.io | +491715557497 aiven.io <https://www.aiven.io> | <https://www.facebook.com/aivencloud> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/aiven/> <https://twitter.com/aiven_io> *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* Alexanderufer 3-7, 10117 Berlin Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa, Hannu Valtonen, Anna Richardson, Kenneth Chen Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B
