Hi, Jiangjie,
Yes, I agree that byte rate already protects the network threads
indirectly. I am not sure if byte rate fully captures the CPU overhead in
network due to SSL. So, at the high level, we can use request time limit to
protect CPU and use byte rate to protect storage and network.
Also, do you think you can get Todd to comment on this KIP?
Thanks,
Jun
On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 11:21 AM, Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Rajini/Jun,
>
> The percentage based reasoning sounds good.
> One thing I am wondering is that if we assume the network thread are just
> doing the network IO, can we say bytes rate quota is already sort of
> network threads quota?
> If we take network threads into the consideration here, would that be
> somewhat overlapping with the bytes rate quota?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin
>
> On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Rajini Sivaram <rajinisiva...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Jun,
> >
> > Thank you for the explanation, I hadn't realized you meant percentage of
> > the total thread pool. If everyone is OK with Jun's suggestion, I will
> > update the KIP.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Rajini
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 7, 2017 at 5:08 PM, Jun Rao <j...@confluent.io> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi, Rajini,
> > >
> > > Let's take your example. Let's say a user sets the limit to 50%. I am
> not
> > > sure if it's better to apply the same percentage separately to network
> > and
> > > io thread pool. For example, for produce requests, most of the time
> will
> > be
> > > spent in the io threads whereas for fetch requests, most of the time
> will
> > > be in the network threads. So, using the same percentage in both thread
> > > pools means one of the pools' resource will be over allocated.
> > >
> > > An alternative way is to simply model network and io thread pool
> > together.
> > > If you get 10 io threads and 5 network threads, you get 1500% request
> > > processing power. A 50% limit means a total of 750% processing power.
> We
> > > just add up the time a user request spent in either network or io
> thread.
> > > If that total exceeds 750% (doesn't matter whether it's spent more in
> > > network or io thread), the request will be throttled. This seems more
> > > general and is not sensitive to the current implementation detail of
> > having
> > > a separate network and io thread pool. In the future, if the threading
> > > model changes, the same concept of quota can still be applied. For now,
> > > since it's a bit tricky to add the delay logic in the network thread
> > pool,
> > > we could probably just do the delaying only in the io threads as you
> > > suggested earlier.
> > >
> > > There is still the orthogonal question of whether a quota of 50% is out
> > of
> > > 100% or 100% * #total processing threads. My feeling is that the latter
> > is
> > > slightly better based on my explanation earlier. The way to describe
> this
> > > quota to the users can be "share of elapsed request processing time on
> a
> > > single CPU" (similar to top).
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Jun
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 4:22 AM, Rajini Sivaram <
> rajinisiva...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Jun,
> > > >
> > > > Agree about the two scenarios.
> > > >
> > > > But still not sure about a single quota covering both network threads
> > and
> > > > I/O threads with per-thread quota. If there are 10 I/O threads and 5
> > > > network threads and I want to assign half the quota to userA, the
> quota
> > > > would be 750%. I imagine, internally, we would convert this to 500%
> for
> > > I/O
> > > > and 250% for network threads to allocate 50% of each pool.
> > > >
> > > > A couple of scenarios:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Admin adds 1 extra network thread. To retain 50%, admin needs to
> now
> > > > allocate 800% for each user. Or increase the quota for a few users.
> To
> > > me,
> > > > it feels like admin needs to convert 50% to 800% and Kafka internally
> > > needs
> > > > to convert 800% to (500%, 300%). Everyone using just 50% feels a lot
> > > > simpler.
> > > >
> > > > 2. We decide to add some other thread to this list. Admin needs to
> know
> > > > exactly how many threads form the maximum quota. And we can be
> changing
> > > > this between broker versions as we add more to the list. Again a
> single
> > > > overall percent would be a lot simpler.
> > > >
> > > > There were others who were unconvinced by a single percent from the
> > > initial
> > > > proposal and were happier with thread units similar to CPU units, so
> I
> > am
> > > > ok with going with per-thread quotas (as units or percent). Just not
> > sure
> > > > it makes it easier for admin in all cases.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Rajini
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 6:03 AM, Jun Rao <j...@confluent.io> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi, Rajini,
> > > > >
> > > > > Consider modeling as n * 100% unit. For 2), the question is what's
> > > > causing
> > > > > the I/O threads to be saturated. It's unlikely that all users'
> > > > utilization
> > > > > have increased at the same. A more likely case is that a few
> isolated
> > > > > users' utilization have increased. If so, after increasing the
> number
> > > of
> > > > > threads, the admin just needs to adjust the quota for a few
> isolated
> > > > users,
> > > > > which is expected and is less work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Consider modeling as 1 * 100% unit. For 1), all users' quota need
> to
> > be
> > > > > adjusted, which is unexpected and is more work.
> > > > >
> > > > > So, to me, the n * 100% model seems more convenient.
> > > > >
> > > > > As for future extension to cover network thread utilization, I was
> > > > thinking
> > > > > that one way is to simply model the capacity as (n + m) * 100%
> unit,
> > > > where
> > > > > n and m are the number of network and i/o threads, respectively.
> > Then,
> > > > for
> > > > > each user, we can just add up the utilization in the network and
> the
> > > i/o
> > > > > thread. If we do this, we don't need a new type of quota.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > Jun
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 12:27 PM, Rajini Sivaram <
> > > rajinisiva...@gmail.com
> > > > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Jun,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If we use request.percentage as the percentage used in a single
> I/O
> > > > > thread,
> > > > > > the total percentage being allocated will be num.io.threads * 100
> > for
> > > > I/O
> > > > > > threads and num.network.threads * 100 for network threads. A
> single
> > > > quota
> > > > > > covering the two as a percentage wouldn't quite work if you want
> to
> > > > > > allocate the same proportion in both cases. If we want to treat
> > > threads
> > > > > as
> > > > > > separate units, won't we need two quota configurations regardless
> > of
> > > > > > whether we use units or percentage? Perhaps I misunderstood your
> > > > > > suggestion.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think there are two cases:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. The use case that you mentioned where an admin is adding
> more
> > > > users
> > > > > > and decides to add more I/O threads and expects to find free
> > quota
> > > > to
> > > > > > allocate for new users.
> > > > > > 2. Admin adds more I/O threads because the I/O threads are
> > > saturated
> > > > > and
> > > > > > there are cores available to allocate, even though the number
> or
> > > > > > users/clients hasn't changed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If we allocated treated I/O threads as a single unit of 100%, all
> > > user
> > > > > > quotas need to be reallocated for 1). If we allocated I/O threads
> > as
> > > n
> > > > > > units with n*100%, all user quotas need to be reallocated for 2),
> > > > > otherwise
> > > > > > some of the new threads may just not be used. Either way it
> should
> > be
> > > > > easy
> > > > > > to write a script to decrease/increase quotas by a multiple for
> all
> > > > > users.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So it really boils down to which quota unit is most intuitive in
> > > terms
> > > > of
> > > > > > configuration. And from the discussion so far, it feels like
> > opinion
> > > is
> > > > > > divided on whether quotas should be carved out of an absolute
> 100%
> > > (or
> > > > 1
> > > > > > unit) or be relative to the number of threads (n*100% or n
> units).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Mar 2, 2017 at 7:31 PM, Jun Rao <j...@confluent.io>
> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Another way to express an absolute limit is to use
> > > > request.percentage,
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > > treat it as the percentage used in a single request handling
> > > thread.
> > > > > For
> > > > > > > now, the request handling threads can be just the io threads.
> In
> > > the
> > > > > > > future, they can cover the network threads as well. This is
> > similar
> > > > to
> > > > > > how
> > > > > > > top reports CPU usage and may be a bit easier for people to
> > > > understand.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Jun
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Jun Rao <j...@confluent.io>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi, Jay,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2. Regarding request.unit vs request.percentage. I started
> with
> > > > > > > > request.percentage too. The reasoning for request.unit is the
> > > > > > following.
> > > > > > > > Suppose that the capacity has been reached on a broker and
> the
> > > > admin
> > > > > > > needs
> > > > > > > > to add a new user. A simple way to increase the capacity is
> to
> > > > > increase
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > number of io threads, assuming there are still enough cores.
> If
> > > the
> > > > > > limit
> > > > > > > > is based on percentage, the additional capacity automatically
> > > gets
> > > > > > > > distributed to existing users and we haven't really carved
> out
> > > any
> > > > > > > > additional resource for the new user. Now, is it easy for a
> > user
> > > to
> > > > > > > reason
> > > > > > > > about 0.1 unit vs 10%. My feeling is that both are hard and
> > have
> > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > configured empirically. Not sure if percentage is obviously
> > > easier
> > > > to
> > > > > > > > reason about.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jun
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 8:10 AM, Jay Kreps <j...@confluent.io
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> A couple of quick points:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 1. Even though the implementation of this quota is only
> using
> > io
> > > > > > thread
> > > > > > > >> time, i think we should call it something like
> "request-time".
> > > > This
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > >> give us flexibility to improve the implementation to cover
> > > network
> > > > > > > threads
> > > > > > > >> in the future and will avoid exposing internal details like
> > our
> > > > > thread
> > > > > > > >> pools on the server.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 2. Jun/Roger, I get what you are trying to fix but the idea
> of
> > > > > > > >> thread/units
> > > > > > > >> is super unintuitive as a user-facing knob. I had to read
> the
> > > KIP
> > > > > like
> > > > > > > >> eight times to understand this. I'm not sure that your point
> > > that
> > > > > > > >> increasing the number of threads is a problem with a
> > > > > percentage-based
> > > > > > > >> value, it really depends on whether the user thinks about
> the
> > > > > > > "percentage
> > > > > > > >> of request processing time" or "thread units". If they think
> > "I
> > > > have
> > > > > > > >> allocated 10% of my request processing time to user x" then
> it
> > > is
> > > > a
> > > > > > bug
> > > > > > > >> that increasing the thread count decreases that percent as
> it
> > > does
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> current proposal. As a practical matter I think the only way
> > to
> > > > > > actually
> > > > > > > >> reason about this is as a percent---I just don't believe
> > people
> > > > are
> > > > > > > going
> > > > > > > >> to think, "ah, 4.3 thread units, that is the right amount!".
> > > > > Instead I
> > > > > > > >> think they have to understand this thread unit concept,
> figure
> > > out
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > >> they have set in number of threads, compute a percent and
> then
> > > > come
> > > > > up
> > > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > > >> the number of thread units, and these will all be wrong if
> > that
> > > > > thread
> > > > > > > >> count changes. I also think this ties us to throttling the
> I/O
> > > > > thread
> > > > > > > >> pool,
> > > > > > > >> which may not be where we want to end up.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> 3. For what it's worth I do think having a single
> throttle_ms
> > > > field
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > >> the responses that combines all throttling from all quotas
> is
> > > > > probably
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> simplest. There could be a use case for having separate
> fields
> > > for
> > > > > > each,
> > > > > > > >> but I think that is actually harder to use/monitor in the
> > common
> > > > > case
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > > >> unless someone has a use case I think just one should be
> fine.
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> -Jay
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 4:21 AM, Rajini Sivaram <
> > > > > > > rajinisiva...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > I have updated the KIP based on the discussions so far.
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > Regards,
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > Rajini
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 11:29 PM, Rajini Sivaram <
> > > > > > > >> rajinisiva...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > > Thank you all for the feedback.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Ismael #1. It makes sense not to throttle inter-broker
> > > > requests
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > > >> > > LeaderAndIsr etc. The simplest way to ensure that
> clients
> > > > cannot
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > >> > these
> > > > > > > >> > > requests to bypass quotas for DoS attacks is to ensure
> > that
> > > > ACLs
> > > > > > > >> prevent
> > > > > > > >> > > clients from using these requests and unauthorized
> > requests
> > > > are
> > > > > > > >> included
> > > > > > > >> > > towards quotas.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Ismael #2, Jay #1 : I was thinking that these quotas can
> > > > return
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > >> > separate
> > > > > > > >> > > throttle time, and all utilization based quotas could
> use
> > > the
> > > > > same
> > > > > > > >> field
> > > > > > > >> > > (we won't add another one for network thread utilization
> > for
> > > > > > > >> instance).
> > > > > > > >> > But
> > > > > > > >> > > perhaps it makes sense to keep byte rate quotas separate
> > in
> > > > > > > >> produce/fetch
> > > > > > > >> > > responses to provide separate metrics? Agree with Ismael
> > > that
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> name of
> > > > > > > >> > > the existing field should be changed if we have two.
> Happy
> > > to
> > > > > > switch
> > > > > > > >> to a
> > > > > > > >> > > single combined throttle time if that is sufficient.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Ismael #4, #5, #6: Will update KIP. Will use dot
> separated
> > > > name
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > >> new
> > > > > > > >> > > property. Replication quotas use dot separated, so it
> will
> > > be
> > > > > > > >> consistent
> > > > > > > >> > > with all properties except byte rate quotas.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Radai: #1 Request processing time rather than request
> rate
> > > > were
> > > > > > > chosen
> > > > > > > >> > > because the time per request can vary significantly
> > between
> > > > > > requests
> > > > > > > >> as
> > > > > > > >> > > mentioned in the discussion and KIP.
> > > > > > > >> > > #2 Two separate quotas for heartbeats/regular requests
> > feel
> > > > like
> > > > > > > more
> > > > > > > >> > > configuration and more metrics. Since most users would
> set
> > > > > quotas
> > > > > > > >> higher
> > > > > > > >> > > than the expected usage and quotas are more of a safety
> > > net, a
> > > > > > > single
> > > > > > > >> > quota
> > > > > > > >> > > should work in most cases.
> > > > > > > >> > > #3 The number of requests in purgatory is limited by
> the
> > > > number
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > >> > active
> > > > > > > >> > > connections since only one request per connection will
> be
> > > > > > throttled
> > > > > > > >> at a
> > > > > > > >> > > time.
> > > > > > > >> > > #4 As with byte rate quotas, to use the full allocated
> > > quotas,
> > > > > > > >> > > clients/users would need to use partitions that are
> > > > distributed
> > > > > > > across
> > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > > cluster. The alternative of using cluster-wide quotas
> > > instead
> > > > of
> > > > > > > >> > per-broker
> > > > > > > >> > > quotas would be far too complex to implement.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Dong : We currently have two ClientQuotaManagers for
> quota
> > > > types
> > > > > > > Fetch
> > > > > > > >> > and
> > > > > > > >> > > Produce. A new one will be added for IOThread, which
> > manages
> > > > > > quotas
> > > > > > > >> for
> > > > > > > >> > I/O
> > > > > > > >> > > thread utilization. This will not update the Fetch or
> > > Produce
> > > > > > > >> queue-size,
> > > > > > > >> > > but will have a separate metric for the queue-size. I
> > > wasn't
> > > > > > > >> planning to
> > > > > > > >> > > add any additional metrics apart from the equivalent
> ones
> > > for
> > > > > > > existing
> > > > > > > >> > > quotas as part of this KIP. Ratio of byte-rate to I/O
> > thread
> > > > > > > >> utilization
> > > > > > > >> > > could be slightly misleading since it depends on the
> > > sequence
> > > > of
> > > > > > > >> > requests.
> > > > > > > >> > > But we can look into more metrics after the KIP is
> > > implemented
> > > > > if
> > > > > > > >> > required.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > I think we need to limit the maximum delay since all
> > > requests
> > > > > are
> > > > > > > >> > > throttled. If a client has a quota of 0.001 units and a
> > > single
> > > > > > > request
> > > > > > > >> > used
> > > > > > > >> > > 50ms, we don't want to delay all requests from the
> client
> > by
> > > > 50
> > > > > > > >> seconds,
> > > > > > > >> > > throwing the client out of all its consumer groups. The
> > > issue
> > > > is
> > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > >> if
> > > > > > > >> > a
> > > > > > > >> > > user is allocated a quota that is insufficient to
> process
> > > one
> > > > > > large
> > > > > > > >> > > request. The expectation is that the units allocated per
> > > user
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > >> > much
> > > > > > > >> > > higher than the time taken to process one request and
> the
> > > > limit
> > > > > > > should
> > > > > > > >> > > seldom be applied. Agree this needs proper
> documentation.
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Regards,
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > Rajini
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 8:04 PM, radai <
> > > > > > radai.rosenbl...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> @jun: i wasnt concerned about tying up a request
> > processing
> > > > > > thread,
> > > > > > > >> but
> > > > > > > >> > >> IIUC the code does still read the entire request out,
> > which
> > > > > might
> > > > > > > >> add-up
> > > > > > > >> > >> to
> > > > > > > >> > >> a non-negligible amount of memory.
> > > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > >> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 11:55 AM, Dong Lin <
> > > > > lindon...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > Hey Rajini,
> > > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > The current KIP says that the maximum delay will be
> > > reduced
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> window
> > > > > > > >> > >> size
> > > > > > > >> > >> > if it is larger than the window size. I have a
> concern
> > > with
> > > > > > this:
> > > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > 1) This essentially means that the user is allowed to
> > > > exceed
> > > > > > > their
> > > > > > > >> > quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> > over a long period of time. Can you provide an upper
> > > bound
> > > > on
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > >> > >> > deviation?
> > > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > 2) What is the motivation for cap the maximum delay
> by
> > > the
> > > > > > window
> > > > > > > >> > size?
> > > > > > > >> > >> I
> > > > > > > >> > >> > am wondering if there is better alternative to
> address
> > > the
> > > > > > > problem.
> > > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > 3) It means that the existing metric-related config
> > will
> > > > > have a
> > > > > > > >> more
> > > > > > > >> > >> > directly impact on the mechanism of this
> > > > io-thread-unit-based
> > > > > > > >> quota.
> > > > > > > >> > The
> > > > > > > >> > >> > may be an important change depending on the answer to
> > 1)
> > > > > above.
> > > > > > > We
> > > > > > > >> > >> probably
> > > > > > > >> > >> > need to document this more explicitly.
> > > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > Dong
> > > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 10:56 AM, Dong Lin <
> > > > > > lindon...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >> > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > Hey Jun,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > Yeah you are right. I thought it wasn't because at
> > > > LinkedIn
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > >> will
> > > > > > > >> > be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > too
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > much pressure on inGraph to expose those
> per-clientId
> > > > > metrics
> > > > > > > so
> > > > > > > >> we
> > > > > > > >> > >> ended
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > up printing them periodically to local log. Never
> > mind
> > > if
> > > > > it
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> not
> > > > > > > >> > a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > general problem.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > Hey Rajini,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > - I agree with Jay that we probably don't want to
> > add a
> > > > new
> > > > > > > field
> > > > > > > >> > for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > every quota ProduceResponse or FetchResponse. Is
> > there
> > > > any
> > > > > > > >> use-case
> > > > > > > >> > >> for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > having separate throttle-time fields for
> > > byte-rate-quota
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > io-thread-unit-quota? You probably need to document
> > > this
> > > > as
> > > > > > > >> > interface
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > change if you plan to add new field in any request.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > - I don't think IOThread belongs to quotaType. The
> > > > existing
> > > > > > > quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> types
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > (i.e. Produce/Fetch/LeaderReplicatio
> > > > n/FollowerReplication)
> > > > > > > >> identify
> > > > > > > >> > >> the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > type of request that are throttled, not the quota
> > > > mechanism
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > applied.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > - If a request is throttled due to this
> > > > > io-thread-unit-based
> > > > > > > >> quota,
> > > > > > > >> > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > existing queue-size metric in ClientQuotaManager
> > > > > incremented?
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > - In the interest of providing guide line for admin
> > to
> > > > > decide
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > io-thread-unit-based quota and for user to
> understand
> > > its
> > > > > > > impact
> > > > > > > >> on
> > > > > > > >> > >> their
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > traffic, would it be useful to have a metric that
> > shows
> > > > the
> > > > > > > >> overall
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > byte-rate per io-thread-unit? Can we also show
> this a
> > > > > > > >> per-clientId
> > > > > > > >> > >> > metric?
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > Dong
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Jun Rao <
> > > > j...@confluent.io
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> Hi, Ismael,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> For #3, typically, an admin won't configure more
> io
> > > > > threads
> > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > >> > CPU
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> cores,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> but it's possible for an admin to start with fewer
> > io
> > > > > > threads
> > > > > > > >> than
> > > > > > > >> > >> cores
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> and grow that later on.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> Hi, Dong,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> I think the throttleTime sensor on the broker
> tells
> > > the
> > > > > > admin
> > > > > > > >> > >> whether a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> user/clentId is throttled or not.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> Hi, Radi,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> The reasoning for delaying the throttled requests
> on
> > > the
> > > > > > > broker
> > > > > > > >> > >> instead
> > > > > > > >> > >> > of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> returning an error immediately is that the latter
> > has
> > > no
> > > > > way
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> prevent
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> client from retrying immediately, which will make
> > > things
> > > > > > > worse.
> > > > > > > >> The
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> delaying logic is based off a delay queue. A
> > separate
> > > > > > > expiration
> > > > > > > >> > >> thread
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> just waits on the next to be expired request. So,
> it
> > > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > tie
> > > > > > > >> > up a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> request handler thread.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> Thanks,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> Jun
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 9:07 AM, Ismael Juma <
> > > > > > > ism...@juma.me.uk
> > > > > > > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > Hi Jay,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > Regarding 1, I definitely like the simplicity of
> > > > > keeping a
> > > > > > > >> single
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> throttle
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > time field in the response. The downside is that
> > the
> > > > > > client
> > > > > > > >> > metrics
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> will be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > more coarse grained.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > Regarding 3, we have
> `leader.imbalance.per.broker.
> > > > > > > percentage`
> > > > > > > >> > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > `log.cleaner.min.cleanable.ratio`.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > Ismael
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 4:43 PM, Jay Kreps <
> > > > > > > j...@confluent.io>
> > > > > > > >> > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > A few minor comments:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > 1. Isn't it the case that the throttling
> time
> > > > > > response
> > > > > > > >> field
> > > > > > > >> > >> > should
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > have
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > the total time your request was throttled
> > > > > > irrespective
> > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> quotas
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > that
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > caused that. Limiting it to byte rate quota
> > > > doesn't
> > > > > > > make
> > > > > > > >> > >> sense,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> but I
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > also
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > I don't think we want to end up adding new
> > > fields
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> response
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > every
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > single thing we quota, right?
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > 2. I don't think we should make this quota
> > > > > > specifically
> > > > > > > >> > about
> > > > > > > >> > >> io
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > threads. Once we introduce these quotas
> > people
> > > > set
> > > > > > them
> > > > > > > >> and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > expect
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > them
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > be enforced (and if they aren't it may
> cause
> > an
> > > > > > > outage).
> > > > > > > >> As
> > > > > > > >> > a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> result
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > they
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > are a bit more sensitive than normal
> > configs, I
> > > > > > think.
> > > > > > > >> The
> > > > > > > >> > >> > current
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > thread
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > pools seem like something of an
> > implementation
> > > > > detail
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > >> > not
> > > > > > > >> > >> the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > level
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > user-facing quotas should be involved
> with. I
> > > > think
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > >> might
> > > > > > > >> > >> be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> better
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > make this a general request-time throttle
> > with
> > > no
> > > > > > > >> mention in
> > > > > > > >> > >> the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > naming
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > about I/O threads and simply acknowledge
> the
> > > > > current
> > > > > > > >> > >> limitation
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> (which
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > we
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > may someday fix) in the docs that this
> covers
> > > > only
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> time
> > > > > > > >> > >> after
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > thread is read off the network.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > 3. As such I think the right interface to
> the
> > > > user
> > > > > > > would
> > > > > > > >> be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> something
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > like percent_request_time and be in
> > {0,...100}
> > > or
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> request_time_ratio
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > and be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > in {0.0,...,1.0} (I think "ratio" is the
> > > > > terminology
> > > > > > we
> > > > > > > >> used
> > > > > > > >> > >> if
> > > > > > > >> > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > scale
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > is between 0 and 1 in the other metrics,
> > > right?)
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > -Jay
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 3:45 AM, Rajini
> Sivaram
> > <
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> rajinisiva...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Guozhang/Dong,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Thank you for the feedback.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Guozhang : I have updated the section on
> > > > > co-existence
> > > > > > of
> > > > > > > >> byte
> > > > > > > >> > >> rate
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > request time quotas.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Dong: I hadn't added much detail to the
> > metrics
> > > > and
> > > > > > > >> sensors
> > > > > > > >> > >> since
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> they
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > are
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > going to be very similar to the existing
> > metrics
> > > > and
> > > > > > > >> sensors.
> > > > > > > >> > >> To
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> avoid
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > confusion, I have now added more detail. All
> > > > metrics
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> group
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > "quotaType" and all sensors have names
> > starting
> > > > with
> > > > > > > >> > >> "quotaType"
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> (where
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > quotaType is Produce/Fetch/
> LeaderReplication/
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > FollowerReplication/*IOThread*).
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > So there will be no reuse of existing
> > > > > metrics/sensors.
> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > >> > new
> > > > > > > >> > >> > ones
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > request processing time based throttling
> will
> > be
> > > > > > > >> completely
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> independent
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > existing metrics/sensors, but will be
> > consistent
> > > > in
> > > > > > > >> format.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > The existing throttle_time_ms field in
> > > > produce/fetch
> > > > > > > >> > responses
> > > > > > > >> > >> > will
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> not
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > impacted by this KIP. That will continue to
> > > return
> > > > > > > >> byte-rate
> > > > > > > >> > >> based
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > throttling times. In addition, a new field
> > > > > > > >> > >> > request_throttle_time_ms
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > will
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > added to return request quota based
> throttling
> > > > > times.
> > > > > > > >> These
> > > > > > > >> > >> will
> > > > > > > >> > >> > be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > exposed
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > as new metrics on the client-side.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Since all metrics and sensors are different
> > for
> > > > each
> > > > > > > type
> > > > > > > >> of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > quota,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> I
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > believe there is already sufficient metrics
> to
> > > > > monitor
> > > > > > > >> > >> throttling
> > > > > > > >> > >> > on
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > both
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > client and broker side for each type of
> > > > throttling.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Rajini
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > On Thu, Feb 23, 2017 at 4:32 AM, Dong Lin <
> > > > > > > >> > lindon...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > Hey Rajini,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > I think it makes a lot of sense to use
> > > > > > io_thread_units
> > > > > > > >> as
> > > > > > > >> > >> metric
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > user's traffic here. LGTM overall. I have
> > some
> > > > > > > questions
> > > > > > > >> > >> > regarding
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > sensors.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > - Can you be more specific in the KIP what
> > > > sensors
> > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > >> be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > added?
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> For
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > example, it will be useful to specify the
> > name
> > > > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> attributes of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > these
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > new
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > sensors.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > - We currently have throttle-time and
> > > queue-size
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > >> > >> byte-rate
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> based
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > quota.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > Are you going to have separate
> throttle-time
> > > and
> > > > > > > >> queue-size
> > > > > > > >> > >> for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > requests
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > throttled by io_thread_unit-based quota,
> or
> > > will
> > > > > > they
> > > > > > > >> share
> > > > > > > >> > >> the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> same
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > sensor?
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > - Does the throttle-time in the
> > > ProduceResponse
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > FetchResponse
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > contains
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > time due to io_thread_unit-based quota?
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > - Currently kafka server doesn't not
> provide
> > > any
> > > > > log
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > >> > >> metrics
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> that
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > tells
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > whether any given clientId (or user) is
> > > > throttled.
> > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > > >> > >> not
> > > > > > > >> > >> > too
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > bad
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > because we can still check the client-side
> > > > > byte-rate
> > > > > > > >> metric
> > > > > > > >> > >> to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > validate
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > whether a given client is throttled. But
> > with
> > > > this
> > > > > > > >> > >> > io_thread_unit,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > there
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > will be no way to validate whether a given
> > > > client
> > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> slow
> > > > > > > >> > >> > because
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> it
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > has
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > exceeded its io_thread_unit limit. It is
> > > > necessary
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > >> user
> > > > > > > >> > >> to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > able
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > know this information to figure how
> whether
> > > they
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > >> > reached
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> there
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > limit. How about we add log4j log on the
> > > server
> > > > > side
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> periodically
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > print
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > the (client_id, byte-rate-throttle-time,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > io-thread-unit-throttle-time)
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > so
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > that kafka administrator can figure those
> > > users
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > >> have
> > > > > > > >> > >> > reached
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > their
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > limit and act accordingly?
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > Dong
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 4:46 PM, Guozhang
> > > Wang <
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> wangg...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > Made a pass over the doc, overall LGTM
> > > except
> > > > a
> > > > > > > minor
> > > > > > > >> > >> comment
> > > > > > > >> > >> > on
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > throttling implementation:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > Stated as "Request processing time
> > > throttling
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > >> > >> applied
> > > > > > > >> > >> > on
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > top
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > if
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > necessary." I thought that it meant the
> > > > request
> > > > > > > >> > processing
> > > > > > > >> > >> > time
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > throttling
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > is applied first, but continue reading I
> > > found
> > > > > it
> > > > > > > >> > actually
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> meant to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > apply
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > produce / fetch byte rate throttling
> > first.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > Also the last sentence "The remaining
> > delay
> > > if
> > > > > any
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> applied
> > > > > > > >> > >> > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > response." is a bit confusing to me.
> Maybe
> > > > > > rewording
> > > > > > > >> it a
> > > > > > > >> > >> bit?
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > Guozhang
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 3:24 PM, Jun
> Rao <
> > > > > > > >> > j...@confluent.io
> > > > > > > >> > >> >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Hi, Rajini,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Thanks for the updated KIP. The latest
> > > > > proposal
> > > > > > > >> looks
> > > > > > > >> > >> good
> > > > > > > >> > >> > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> me.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Jun
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 2:19 PM,
> Rajini
> > > > > Sivaram
> > > > > > <
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > rajinisiva...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > Jun/Roger,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > Thank you for the feedback.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > 1. I have updated the KIP to use
> > > absolute
> > > > > > units
> > > > > > > >> > >> instead of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > percentage.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > property is called* io_thread_units*
> > to
> > > > > align
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> thread
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > count
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > property *num.io.threads*. When we
> > > > implement
> > > > > > > >> network
> > > > > > > >> > >> > thread
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > utilization
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > quotas, we can add another property
> > > > > > > >> > >> > *network_thread_units.*
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > 2. ControlledShutdown is already
> > listed
> > > > > under
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> exempt
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > requests.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > Jun,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > did
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > you mean a different request that
> > needs
> > > to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > >> added?
> > > > > > > >> > >> The
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> four
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > requests
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > currently exempt in the KIP are
> > > > StopReplica,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > ControlledShutdown,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > LeaderAndIsr and UpdateMetadata.
> These
> > > are
> > > > > > > >> controlled
> > > > > > > >> > >> > using
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > ClusterAction
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > ACL, so it is easy to exclude and
> only
> > > > > > throttle
> > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > unauthorized.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > I
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > wasn't
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > sure if there are other requests
> used
> > > only
> > > > > for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > inter-broker
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > that
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > needed
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > be excluded.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > 3. I was thinking the smallest
> change
> > > > would
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> replace
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> all
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > references
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > *requestChannel.sendResponse()*
> with
> > a
> > > > > local
> > > > > > > >> method
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > *sendResponseMaybeThrottle()* that
> > does
> > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > throttling
> > > > > > > >> > >> if
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> any
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > plus
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > send
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > response. If we throttle first in
> > > > > > > >> > *KafkaApis.handle()*,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > time
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > spent
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > within the method handling the
> request
> > > > will
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > recorded
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> or
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > used
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > in
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > throttling. We can look into this
> > again
> > > > when
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> PR
> > > > > > > >> > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > ready
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > review.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > Rajini
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 5:55 PM,
> Roger
> > > > > Hoover
> > > > > > <
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > roger.hoo...@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > Great to see this KIP and the
> > > excellent
> > > > > > > >> discussion.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > To me, Jun's suggestion makes
> sense.
> > > If
> > > > > my
> > > > > > > >> > >> application
> > > > > > > >> > >> > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > allocated
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > 1
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > request handler unit, then it's as
> > if
> > > I
> > > > > > have a
> > > > > > > >> > Kafka
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> broker
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > with
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > single
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > request handler thread dedicated
> to
> > > me.
> > > > > > > That's
> > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > most I
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > can
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > use,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > at
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > least. That allocation doesn't
> > change
> > > > > even
> > > > > > if
> > > > > > > >> an
> > > > > > > >> > >> admin
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> later
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > increases
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > size of the request thread pool on
> > the
> > > > > > broker.
> > > > > > > >> > It's
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> similar
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > CPU
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > abstraction that VMs and
> containers
> > > get
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > >> > >> hypervisors
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> or
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > OS
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > schedulers.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > While different client access
> > patterns
> > > > can
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > >> > wildly
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > different
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > amounts
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > request thread resources per
> > request,
> > > a
> > > > > > given
> > > > > > > >> > >> > application
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > will
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > generally
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > have a stable access pattern and
> can
> > > > > figure
> > > > > > > out
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> empirically
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > how
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > many
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > "request thread units" it needs to
> > > meet
> > > > > it's
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > throughput/latency
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > goals.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > Roger
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 8:53 AM,
> Jun
> > > > Rao <
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> j...@confluent.io>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > Hi, Rajini,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the updated KIP. A
> few
> > > more
> > > > > > > >> comments.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > 1. A concern of
> > request_time_percent
> > > > is
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > >> it's
> > > > > > > >> > >> not
> > > > > > > >> > >> > an
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > absolute
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > value.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > Let's say you give a user a 10%
> > > limit.
> > > > > If
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > admin
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> doubles
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > number
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > request handler threads, that
> user
> > > now
> > > > > > > >> actually
> > > > > > > >> > has
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> twice
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > absolute
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > capacity. This may confuse
> people
> > a
> > > > bit.
> > > > > > So,
> > > > > > > >> > >> perhaps
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > setting
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > based on an absolute request
> > thread
> > > > unit
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> > better.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > 2. ControlledShutdownRequest is
> > also
> > > > an
> > > > > > > >> > >> inter-broker
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > request
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > needs
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > be excluded from throttling.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > 3. Implementation wise, I am
> > > wondering
> > > > > if
> > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > >> > >> simpler
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > apply
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > request
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > time throttling first in
> > > > > > KafkaApis.handle().
> > > > > > > >> > >> > Otherwise,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> we
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > will
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > need
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > add
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > the throttling logic in each
> type
> > of
> > > > > > > request.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > Jun
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 5:58 AM,
> > > > Rajini
> > > > > > > >> Sivaram <
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > rajinisiva...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > Jun,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for the review.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > I have reverted to the
> original
> > > KIP
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > >> > >> throttles
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> based
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > on
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > request
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > handler
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > utilization. At the moment, it
> > > uses
> > > > > > > >> percentage,
> > > > > > > >> > >> but
> > > > > > > >> > >> > I
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> am
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > happy
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > change
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > a fraction (out of 1 instead
> of
> > > 100)
> > > > > if
> > > > > > > >> > >> required. I
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> have
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > added
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > examples
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > from this discussion to the
> KIP.
> > > > Also
> > > > > > > added
> > > > > > > >> a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > "Future
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > Work"
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > section
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > address network thread
> > > utilization.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > >> > >> > configuration
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > named
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > "request_time_percent" with
> the
> > > > > > > expectation
> > > > > > > >> > that
> > > > > > > >> > >> it
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> can
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > also
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > used
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > limit for network thread
> > > utilization
> > > > > > when
> > > > > > > >> that
> > > > > > > >> > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > implemented,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > so
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > users have to set only one
> > config
> > > > for
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> two
> > > > > > > >> > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > not
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > have
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > worry
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > the internal distribution of
> the
> > > > work
> > > > > > > >> between
> > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > two
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > thread
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > pools
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > Kafka.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > Rajini
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 22, 2017 at 12:23
> > AM,
> > > > Jun
> > > > > > Rao
> > > > > > > <
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > j...@confluent.io>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, Rajini,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the proposal.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > The benefit of using the
> > request
> > > > > > > >> processing
> > > > > > > >> > >> time
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> over
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > request
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > rate
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > exactly what people have
> > said. I
> > > > > will
> > > > > > > just
> > > > > > > >> > >> expand
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> that
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > bit.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > Consider
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > following case. The producer
> > > > sends a
> > > > > > > >> produce
> > > > > > > >> > >> > request
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > with a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > 10MB
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > message
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > but compressed to 100KB with
> > > gzip.
> > > > > The
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> decompression of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > message
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > broker could take 10-15
> > seconds,
> > > > > > during
> > > > > > > >> which
> > > > > > > >> > >> > time,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > request
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > handler
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > thread is completely
> blocked.
> > In
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > >> case,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > neither
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > byte-in
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > nor
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the request rate quota may
> be
> > > > > > effective
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> protecting
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > broker.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > Consider
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > another case. A consumer
> group
> > > > > starts
> > > > > > > >> with 10
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> instances
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > later
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > switches to 20 instances.
> The
> > > > > request
> > > > > > > rate
> > > > > > > >> > will
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> likely
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > double,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > but
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > actually load on the broker
> > may
> > > > not
> > > > > > > double
> > > > > > > >> > >> since
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> each
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > fetch
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > request
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > only
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > contains half of the
> > partitions.
> > > > > > Request
> > > > > > > >> rate
> > > > > > > >> > >> > quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> may
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > not
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > easy
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > configure in this case.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > What we really want is to be
> > > able
> > > > to
> > > > > > > >> prevent
> > > > > > > >> > a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> client
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > from
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > using
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > too
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > much
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > of the server side
> resources.
> > In
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > >> > >> particular
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> KIP,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > this
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > resource
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > capacity of the request
> > handler
> > > > > > > threads. I
> > > > > > > >> > >> agree
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> that
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > it
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > may
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > intuitive for the users to
> > > > determine
> > > > > > how
> > > > > > > >> to
> > > > > > > >> > set
> > > > > > > >> > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > right
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > limit.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > However,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > this is not completely new
> and
> > > has
> > > > > > been
> > > > > > > >> done
> > > > > > > >> > in
> > > > > > > >> > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > container
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > world
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > already. For example, Linux
> > > > cgroup (
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > https://access.redhat.com/
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_En
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> terprise_Linux/6/html/
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> Resource_Management_Guide/sec-
> > > > > > cpu.html)
> > > > > > > >> has
> > > > > > > >> > >> the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > concept
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > cpu.cfs_quota_us,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > which specifies the total
> > amount
> > > > of
> > > > > > time
> > > > > > > >> in
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > microseconds
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > tasks in a cgroup can run
> > > during a
> > > > > one
> > > > > > > >> second
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> period.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > We
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > can
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > potentially
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > model the request handler
> > > threads
> > > > > in a
> > > > > > > >> > similar
> > > > > > > >> > >> > way.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> For
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > example,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > each
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > request handler thread can
> be
> > 1
> > > > > > request
> > > > > > > >> > handler
> > > > > > > >> > >> > unit
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > admin
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > configure a limit on how
> many
> > > > units
> > > > > > (say
> > > > > > > >> > 0.01)
> > > > > > > >> > >> a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> client
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > can
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > have.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding not throttling the
> > > > > internal
> > > > > > > >> broker
> > > > > > > >> > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> broker
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > requests.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > We
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > could
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > do that. Alternatively, we
> > could
> > > > > just
> > > > > > > let
> > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > admin
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > configure a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > high
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > limit
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > for the kafka user (it may
> not
> > > be
> > > > > able
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> do
> > > > > > > >> > >> that
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > easily
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > based
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > clientId
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > though).
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Ideally we want to be able
> to
> > > > > protect
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> utilization
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > network
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > thread
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > pool too. The difficult is
> > > mostly
> > > > > what
> > > > > > > >> Rajini
> > > > > > > >> > >> > said:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> (1)
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > The
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > mechanism
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > throttling the requests is
> > > through
> > > > > > > >> Purgatory
> > > > > > > >> > >> and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > we
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > will
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > have
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > through how to integrate
> that
> > > into
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > network
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> layer.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > (2)
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > In
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > network
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > layer, currently we know the
> > > user,
> > > > > but
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> clientId
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > request.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > So,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > it's a bit tricky to
> throttle
> > > > based
> > > > > on
> > > > > > > >> > clientId
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> there.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > Plus,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > byteOut
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > quota can already protect
> the
> > > > > network
> > > > > > > >> thread
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > utilization
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > fetch
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > requests. So, if we can't
> > figure
> > > > out
> > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > >> > part
> > > > > > > >> > >> > right
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > now,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > just
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > focusing
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the request handling threads
> > for
> > > > > this
> > > > > > > KIP
> > > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > still a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > useful
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > feature.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Jun
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 4:27
> > AM,
> > > > > > Rajini
> > > > > > > >> > >> Sivaram <
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > rajinisiva...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you all for the
> > > feedback.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jay: I have removed
> > exemption
> > > > for
> > > > > > > >> consumer
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> heartbeat
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > etc.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > Agree
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > protecting the cluster is
> > more
> > > > > > > important
> > > > > > > >> > than
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > protecting
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > individual
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > apps.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Have retained the
> exemption
> > > for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > StopReplicat/LeaderAndIsr
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > etc,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > throttled only if
> > > authorization
> > > > > > fails
> > > > > > > >> (so
> > > > > > > >> > >> can't
> > > > > > > >> > >> > be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > used
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > DoS
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > attacks
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > a secure cluster, but
> allows
> > > > > > > >> inter-broker
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> requests to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > complete
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > without
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > delays).
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > I will wait another day to
> > see
> > > > if
> > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > > >> > >> any
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > objection
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > quotas
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > based
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > request processing time
> (as
> > > > > opposed
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> request
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> rate)
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > if
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > there
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > no
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > objections, I will revert
> to
> > > the
> > > > > > > >> original
> > > > > > > >> > >> > proposal
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > with
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > some
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > changes.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > The original proposal was
> > only
> > > > > > > including
> > > > > > > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > time
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > used
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > by
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > request
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > handler threads (that made
> > > > > > calculation
> > > > > > > >> > >> easy). I
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> think
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > suggestion
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > include the time spent in
> > the
> > > > > > network
> > > > > > > >> > >> threads as
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> well
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > since
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > may
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > significant. As Jay
> pointed
> > > out,
> > > > > it
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> more
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > complicated
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > calculate
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > total available CPU time
> and
> > > > > convert
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> a
> > > > > > > >> > >> ratio
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> when
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > there
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > *m*
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > I/O
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > threads
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > and *n* network threads.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > ThreadMXBean#getThreadCPUTime(
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > )
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > may
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > give
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > us
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > we want, but it can be
> very
> > > > > > expensive
> > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > >> > some
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > platforms.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > As
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > Becket
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Guozhang have pointed out,
> > we
> > > do
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > >> > several
> > > > > > > >> > >> > time
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > measurements
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > already
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > generating metrics that we
> > > could
> > > > > > use,
> > > > > > > >> > though
> > > > > > > >> > >> we
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> might
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > want
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > switch
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > nanoTime() instead of
> > > > > > > >> currentTimeMillis()
> > > > > > > >> > >> since
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> some
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > values
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > small requests may be <
> 1ms.
> > > But
> > > > > > > rather
> > > > > > > >> > than
> > > > > > > >> > >> add
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> up
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > time
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > spent
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > I/O
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > thread and network thread,
> > > > > wouldn't
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > >> be
> > > > > > > >> > >> better
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > convert
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > spent
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > on each thread into a
> > separate
> > > > > > ratio?
> > > > > > > >> UserA
> > > > > > > >> > >> has
> > > > > > > >> > >> > a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > request
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > 5%.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Can
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > we take that to mean that
> > > UserA
> > > > > can
> > > > > > > use
> > > > > > > >> 5%
> > > > > > > >> > of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > time
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > on
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > network
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > threads
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > and 5% of the time on I/O
> > > > threads?
> > > > > > If
> > > > > > > >> > either
> > > > > > > >> > >> is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > exceeded,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > response
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > throttled - it would mean
> > > > > > maintaining
> > > > > > > >> two
> > > > > > > >> > >> sets
> > > > > > > >> > >> > of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > metrics
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > two
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > durations, but would
> result
> > in
> > > > > more
> > > > > > > >> > >> meaningful
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > ratios.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > We
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > could
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > define
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > two
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > quota limits (UserA has 5%
> > of
> > > > > > request
> > > > > > > >> > threads
> > > > > > > >> > >> > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> 10%
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > network
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > threads),
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > but that seems unnecessary
> > and
> > > > > > harder
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> explain
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > users.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Back to why and how quotas
> > are
> > > > > > applied
> > > > > > > >> to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > network
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > thread
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > utilization:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > a) In the case of fetch,
> > the
> > > > time
> > > > > > > >> spent in
> > > > > > > >> > >> the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > network
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > thread
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > may
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > significant and I can see
> > the
> > > > need
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > include
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> this.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > Are
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > there
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > requests where the network
> > > > thread
> > > > > > > >> > >> utilization is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > significant?
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > In
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > case
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > of fetch, request handler
> > > thread
> > > > > > > >> > utilization
> > > > > > > >> > >> > would
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > throttle
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > clients
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > high request rate, low
> data
> > > > volume
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > >> > fetch
> > > > > > > >> > >> > byte
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > rate
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > throttle
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > clients with high data
> > volume.
> > > > > > Network
> > > > > > > >> > thread
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > utilization
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > perhaps
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > proportional to the data
> > > > volume. I
> > > > > > am
> > > > > > > >> > >> wondering
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> if we
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > even
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > need
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > throttle
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > based on network thread
> > > > > utilization
> > > > > > or
> > > > > > > >> > >> whether
> > > > > > > >> > >> > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > data
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > volume
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > covers
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > this case.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > b) At the moment, we
> record
> > > and
> > > > > > check
> > > > > > > >> for
> > > > > > > >> > >> quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > violation
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > at
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > time.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > If a quota is violated,
> the
> > > > > response
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> delayed.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > Using
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > Jay'e
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > example
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > disk reads for fetches
> > > happening
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> network
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > thread,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > We
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > can't
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > record
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > delay a response after the
> > > disk
> > > > > > reads.
> > > > > > > >> We
> > > > > > > >> > >> could
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > record
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > time
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > spent
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > on
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > the network thread when
> the
> > > > > response
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> complete
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > introduce
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > delay
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > handling a subsequent
> > request
> > > > > > > (separate
> > > > > > > >> out
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> recording
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > violation
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > handling in the case of
> > > network
> > > > > > thread
> > > > > > > >> > >> > overload).
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > Does
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > that
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > make
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > sense?
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Rajini
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at
> 2:58
> > > AM,
> > > > > > > Becket
> > > > > > > >> > Qin <
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > becket....@gmail.com>
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey Jay,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I agree that
> > enforcing
> > > > the
> > > > > > CPU
> > > > > > > >> time
> > > > > > > >> > >> is a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > little
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > tricky. I
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > am
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > thinking
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > that maybe we can use
> the
> > > > > existing
> > > > > > > >> > request
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > statistics.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > They
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > already
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > very detailed so we can
> > > > probably
> > > > > > see
> > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > approximate
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > CPU
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > time
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > it,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > e.g.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > something like
> > (total_time -
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > request/response_queue_time
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > -
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > remote_time).
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Guozhang
> that
> > > > when
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > >> user is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> throttled
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > it
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > likely
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > need to see if anything
> > has
> > > > went
> > > > > > > wrong
> > > > > > > >> > >> first,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > if
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > users
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > well
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > behaving and just need
> > more
> > > > > > > >> resources, we
> > > > > > > >> > >> will
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> have
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > bump
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > up
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > for them. It is true
> that
> > > > > > > >> pre-allocating
> > > > > > > >> > >> CPU
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> time
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > precisely
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > users is difficult. So
> in
> > > > > practice
> > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > >> > would
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > probably
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > be
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > more
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > like
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > first
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > set
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > a relative high
> protective
> > > CPU
> > > > > > time
> > > > > > > >> quota
> > > > > > > >> > >> for
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > everyone
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > increase
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > for some individual
> > clients
> > > on
> > > > > > > demand.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jiangjie (Becket) Qin
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 20, 2017 at
> > 5:48
> > > > PM,
> > > > > > > >> Guozhang
> > > > > > > >> > >> > Wang <
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > wangg...@gmail.com
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is a great
> > proposal,
> > > > glad
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> see
> > > > > > > >> > it
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > happening.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am inclined to the
> CPU
> > > > > > > >> throttling, or
> > > > > > > >> > >> more
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > specifically
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > processing
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > time
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ratio instead of the
> > > request
> > > > > > rate
> > > > > > > >> > >> throttling
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> as
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > well.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > Becket
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > has
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > well
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > summed my rationales
> > > above,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > one
> > > > > > > >> > >> thing to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> add
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > here
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > former
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > has a good support for
> > > both
> > > > > > > >> "protecting
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> against
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > rogue
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > clients"
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > well
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > as
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "utilizing a cluster
> for
> > > > > > > >> multi-tenancy
> > > > > > > >> > >> > usage":
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > when
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > thinking
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > about
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > explain this to the
> end
> > > > > users, I
> > > > > > > >> find
> > > > > > > >> > it
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> actually
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > more
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > natural
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > request rate since as
> > > > > mentioned
> > > > > > > >> above,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> different
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > requests
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > will
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > quite
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different "cost", and
> > > Kafka
> > > > > > today
> > > > > > > >> > already
> > > > > > > >> > >> > have
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > various
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > request
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > types
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (produce, fetch,
> admin,
> > > > > > metadata,
> > > > > > > >> etc),
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> because
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > of
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > that
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > request
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > rate
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > throttling may not be
> as
> > > > > > effective
> > > > > > > >> > >> unless it
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > set
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > very
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > conservatively.
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding to user
> > > reactions
> > > > > when
> > > > > > > >> they
> > > > > > > >> > are
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > throttled,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > I
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > think
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > may
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > differ
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > case-by-case, and need
> > to
> > > be
> > > > > > > >> > discovered /
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> guided
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > by
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > looking
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > at
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > relative
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > metrics. So in other
> > words
> > > > > users
> > > > > > > >> would
> > > > > > > >> > >> not
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> expect
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > to
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > get
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > additional
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > information by simply
> > > being
> > > > > told
> > > > > > > >> "hey,
> > > > > > > >> > >> you
> > > > > > > >> > >> > are
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > throttled",
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > which
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > all
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > what throttling does;
> > they
> > > > > need
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > >> > take a
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > follow-up
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > step
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > "hmm,
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > throttled probably
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > > ..",
> > > > > > > >> > which
> > > > > > > >> > >> is
> > > > > > > >> > >> > by
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > looking
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > at
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > other
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > metric
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > values: e.g. whether
> I'm
> > > > > > > bombarding
> > > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> brokers
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > with
> > > > > > > >> > >> > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > ...
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Message clipped]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
