Hi Ismael,
1. I don't have a real requirement now but "deleting" is an operation that could be really dangerous so it's always better having a way for having more control on that. I know that we have the authorizer used for that (delete on topic) but fine grained control could be better (even already happens for topic deletion). 2. I know about the problem of restarting broker due to changes on policies but what do you mean by doing that on the clients ? Paolo Patierno Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat Microsoft MVP on Azure & IoT Microsoft Azure Advisor Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno> Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno> Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/> ________________________________ From: isma...@gmail.com <isma...@gmail.com> on behalf of Ismael Juma <ism...@juma.me.uk> Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 10:30 AM To: dev@kafka.apache.org Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-201: Rationalising Policy interfaces A couple of questions: 1. Is this a concrete requirement from a user or is it hypothetical? 2. You sure you would want to do this in the broker instead of the clients? It's worth remembering that updating broker policies involves a rolling restart of the cluster, so it's not the right place for things that change frequently. Ismael On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Paolo Patierno <ppatie...@live.com> wrote: > Hi Ismael, > > regarding motivations for delete records, as I said during the discussion > on KIP-204, it gives the possibility to avoid deleting messages for > specific partitions (inside the topic) and starting from a specific offset. > I could think on some users solutions where they know exactly what the > partitions means in a specific topic (because they are using a custom > partitioner on the producer side) so they know what kind of messages are > inside a partition allowing to delete them but not the others. In such a > policy a user could also check the timestamp related to the offset for > allowing or not deletion on time base. > > > Paolo Patierno > Senior Software Engineer (IoT) @ Red Hat > Microsoft MVP on Azure & IoT > Microsoft Azure Advisor > > Twitter : @ppatierno<http://twitter.com/ppatierno> > Linkedin : paolopatierno<http://it.linkedin.com/in/paolopatierno> > Blog : DevExperience<http://paolopatierno.wordpress.com/> > > > ________________________________ > From: isma...@gmail.com <isma...@gmail.com> on behalf of Ismael Juma < > ism...@juma.me.uk> > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2017 10:18 AM > To: dev@kafka.apache.org > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-201: Rationalising Policy interfaces > > A couple more comments: > > 1. "If this KIP is accepted for Kafka 1.1.0 this removal could happen in > Kafka 1.2.0 or a later release." -> we only remove code in major releases. > So, if it's deprecated in 1.1.0, it would be removed in 2.0.0. > > 2. Deleting all messages in a topic is not really the same as deleting a > topic. The latter will cause consumers and producers to error out while the > former will not. It would be good to motivate the need for the delete > records policy more. > > Ismael > > On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Ismael Juma <ism...@juma.me.uk> wrote: > > > Another quick comment: the KIP states that having multiple interfaces > > imply that the logic must be in 2 places. That is not true because the > same > > class can implement multiple interfaces (this aspect was considered when > we > > decided to introduce policies incrementally). > > > > The main reason why I think the original approach doesn't work well is > > that there is no direct mapping between an operation and the policy. That > > is, we initially thought we would have create/alter/delete topics, but > that > > didn't work out as the alter case is better served by multiple request > > types. Given that, it's a bit awkward to maintain the original approach > and > > a policy for topic management seemed easier to understand. On that note, > > would `TopicManagementPolicy` be a better name? > > > > Looking at the updated KIP, I notice that we actually have a > > TopicDeletionPolicy with a separate config. That seems to be a halfway > > house. Not sure about that. > > > > Ismael > > > > On Wed, Sep 27, 2017 at 10:47 AM, Tom Bentley <t.j.bent...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> I have updated the KIP to add a common policy interface for topic and > >> message deletion. This included pulling ClusterState and TopicState > >> interfaces up to the top level so that they can be shared between the > two > >> policies. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Tom > >> > >> On 26 September 2017 at 18:09, Edoardo Comar <eco...@uk.ibm.com> wrote: > >> > >> > Thanks Tom, > >> > In my original KIP-170 I mentioned that the method > >> > > >> > public Map<String, Integer> topicsPartitionCount(); > >> > > >> > was just a starting point for a general purpose ClusterState > >> > as it happened to be exactly the info we needed for our policy > >> > implementation :-) > >> > it definitely doesn't feel general purpose enough. > >> > > >> > what about > >> > > >> > interface ClusterState { > >> > public TopicState topicState(String topicName); > >> > public Set<String> topics(); > >> > } > >> > > >> > I think that the implementation of ClusterState that the server will > >> pass > >> > to the policy.validate method > >> > would just lazily tap into MetadataCache. No need for big upfront > >> > allocations. > >> > > >> > ciao, > >> > Edo > >> > -------------------------------------------------- > >> > > >> > Edoardo Comar > >> > > >> > IBM Message Hub > >> > > >> > IBM UK Ltd, Hursley Park, SO21 2JN > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > From: Tom Bentley <t.j.bent...@gmail.com> > >> > To: dev@kafka.apache.org > >> > Date: 26/09/2017 17:39 > >> > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] KIP-201: Rationalising Policy interfaces > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Hi Edoardo, > >> > > >> > > >> > what about a single method in ClusterState > >> > > > >> > > interface ClusterState { > >> > > public Map<String,TopicState> topicsState(); > >> > > > >> > > } > >> > > > >> > > which could return a read-only snapshot of the cluster metadata ? > >> > > > >> > > >> > Sure that would work too. A concern with that is that we end up > >> allocating > >> > a potentially rather large amount for the Map and the collections > >> present > >> > in the TopicStates in order to provide the snapshot. The caller might > >> only > >> > be interested in one item from the TopicState for one topic in the > map. > >> > Accessing this information via methods means the caller only pays for > >> what > >> > they use. > >> > > >> > Cheers, > >> > > >> > Tom > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Unless stated otherwise above: > >> > IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with > number > >> > 741598. > >> > Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 > >> 3AU > >> > > >> > > > > >
