Hi Serge, I pushed a PR based on your resources for the Karaf site ;)
https://github.com/apache/karaf-site/pull/36 Regards, François Papon [email protected] Le 13/02/2019 à 14:04, Serge Huber a écrit : > +1 on promoting Karaf. May I remind you I produced a while ago a lot > of resources comparing Karaf to other frameworks solutions? > > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Js5qTXXugEOsp-5kUYoUbCKP1xt1dUx8efWZcGbm6C4/edit#gid=0 > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b1aJ_qimFxPxD9BDtaq21sW_h43kWUXrLVTWAFR_Coc/edit#heading=h.3uzgwjymutz > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cZp-KymYOVgpBiHVPdLAYfKY81U_LzfqVYCIcVd2Mfg/edit#heading=h.9xhre7dovs0q > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1e4vvXhTNMaAbb7UgDSgmRjvVHp_nm981ztw33k0kHN8/edit#heading=h.2jt36cq65nll > > Of course, these resources can be improved, especially in light of the > kloud initiative, but I think that it would help promote Karaf more > aggressively. > > Regards, > Serge... > > On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 9:06 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]> > wrote: >> Good point Serge. >> >> The huge advantage of Karaf is our "polymorphic" approach: we can >> address lot of different packaging, use cases, etc. >> >> So, update is a key thing as well (more for dynamic approach than static >> I think). >> >> I forgot to mention one area where we would need help: spread the word >> and advertising. With the kloud initiative, I think we can seduce more >> users, but they have to find Karaf and what they can do with it and how >> Karaf can help them. >> >> I created new Jira yesterday evening, and now I'm starting from PoC that >> you will be able to see as PRs soon. >> >> Thanks for your enthusiasm and your interest in Karaf ! >> >> Let's build the "new" Karaf ;) >> >> Regards >> JB >> >> On 13/02/2019 08:29, Serge Huber wrote: >>> +1 >>> >>> I really like this project, but I think we should also be careful to >>> really leverage Karaf's strengths compared to other frameworks (such >>> as Spring or others). >>> >>> I have a millions things that come to mind, how to address : >>> - upgrades >>> - rolling upgrades >>> - leveraging Karaf to avoid building lots of containers and use >>> instead OSGi to reduce the memory / CPU footprint >>> - configuration of containers (passed as env or even centralized ?) >>> >>> There are also some very interesting developments coming to the JDK >>> (in JDK 12) such as Project Loom that could help scale Karaf to >>> millions of network connections on single instances without the need >>> for NIO. >>> >>> We were talking in another thread about having a very thin OS-layer on >>> top of Karaf to have baremetal performance and I think this could be >>> very interesting in a cloud setup as well. >>> >>> Anyway, I'm just throwing ideas here, hope you don't mind :) >>> >>> cheers, >>> Serge >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 2:11 PM David Daniel >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Thank you, >>>> I would also be curious if it is possible to work to align some features >>>> changes to be compatible with the osgi feature spec. >>>> https://github.com/osgi/design/blob/master/rfps/rfp-0188-Features.pdf It >>>> might be possible to bridge some of the gap between bnd and karaf. I love >>>> things about both frameworks and would be super excited if they could work >>>> together. >>>> >>>> David >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 7:01 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks for your feedback David, nice idea about jlink, I have to >>>>> investigate a little about it, but definitely interesting. >>>>> >>>>> Regards >>>>> JB >>>>> >>>>> On 11/02/2019 12:52, David Daniel wrote: >>>>>> I really like the idea of the static build and features in code. I think >>>>>> the jdk is making great strides in getting java running well on docker >>>>>> java 9 jlink for small images that can be copied and spun up quickly >>>>>> java 10 defaults improvements https://aboullaite.me/docker-java-10/ >>>>>> portola for running java on musl (alpine without glibc) >>>>>> https://openjdk.java.net/projects/portola/ >>>>>> loom is coming for not spinning off a ton of threads >>>>>> If at all possible I would love to be able to build a minimal karaf >>>>>> distribution with jlink from java module files that were generated from >>>>> the >>>>>> karaf resolver. I think this might be a little much though and don't >>>>> even >>>>>> know if it is possible. Just something that might be able to be looked >>>>> at >>>>>> while the code is being written. >>>>>> >>>>>> David >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 11, 2019 at 1:57 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi guys, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As we now have released Karaf runtime 4.2.3 and started 4.3.x, I think >>>>>>> it's time to discuss and move forward "concretely" about the "kloud" >>>>>>> (Karaf for the Cloud) initiative. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think the first approach is focused on the developers and devops. I >>>>>>> created the following Jira: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-5923 >>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-6148 >>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-6149 >>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-6150 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The idea is really to simplify the features generation and distribution >>>>>>> packaging. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For the features generation, I'm thinking on annotations directly in the >>>>>>> code (in package-info.java for instance) describing the features needed >>>>>>> by the application. The annotations scanner could then create the >>>>>>> features XML using the code itself and the annotations. That would allow >>>>>>> us to not relay on Maven and be able to support CLI/Gradle/Maven. In the >>>>>>> case where the user uses Maven, we could better leverage Maven to get >>>>>>> some details. The idea is to especially easily create features XML to >>>>>>> build "static" runtime (that make sense for the cloud). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> After the features XML generation, we should have a easier way to build >>>>>>> a distribution. We also have to provide multiple "packaging output" like >>>>>>> archives (zip/tar.gz), uber jar (embedding karaf and user application), >>>>>>> docker image, openimage, kubernetes meta, ... >>>>>>> The idea is to have a ready to go packaging for the cloud. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For the cloud perspective, the distribution should be >>>>>>> "immutable/static". Currently, the resolver we have is great for >>>>>>> "dynamic" deployment but could be painful for static one (dealing with >>>>>>> refresh, multiple versions resolution, etc). >>>>>>> I'm proposing to create kind of "static" resolver >>>>>>> (https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-6147) directly taking boot >>>>>>> features and installing straight forward what's defined in the features. >>>>>>> It should result with a more "predictable" behavior, really helpful from >>>>>>> a cloud perspective. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Finally, I created some Jira about general improvements for the cloud >>>>>>> and docker: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-6111 >>>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/KARAF-4609 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think you got the overall idea: dramatically simplify creation of >>>>>>> distribution packaging karaf with user application (for developer), >>>>>>> simplify the packaging outputs and bootstrapping on cloud (for devops). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you think it could be helpful to have a doc on confluence about that, >>>>>>> please let me know I will create it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We all know that Karaf is an amazing runtime. To convince more and more >>>>>>> users and give a new dimension to Karaf, I really think that the "kloud >>>>>>> initiative" is a must have. We will have a runtime that can address both >>>>>>> static and dynamic bootstrapping approach, one runtime for multiple >>>>>>> services or one runtime per service, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thoughts ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards >>>>>>> JB >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net >>>>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com >>>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jean-Baptiste Onofré >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://blog.nanthrax.net >>>>> Talend - http://www.talend.com >>>>> >> -- >> Jean-Baptiste Onofré >> [email protected] >> http://blog.nanthrax.net >> Talend - http://www.talend.com
