+1 Paulo. I think that makes sense.

On Wed, 3 Apr 2024 at 21:23, Enrique Gonzalez Martinez <[email protected]>
wrote:

> +1 (runtimes constraint accounted for)
>
> El mié, 3 abr 2024, 21:16, Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> escribió:
>
> > Paulo,
> >
> > +1 for this proposal. With the caveat highlighted by Enrique that this
> > won't require any engine deviations, and if needed a new proposal will
> > be sent to this list.
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 11:59 AM Paulo Martins <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thinking about the runtime tooling context, I believe, in the end, we
> can
> > > have a good set of distributions that complement each other in the
> > > following way:
> > >
> > > - Sonataflow Dev UI extension: Offers an out-of-the-box way to test
> > > workflows and any additional custom resources we decide to support,
> such
> > as
> > > custom forms and dashboards, during development.
> > > - Serverless Logic Web Tools: Provides a playground environment for new
> > > users and demos, where they can connect their cluster by providing a
> data
> > > index or gateway API URL, and have access to the runtime tooling
> without
> > > the need to deploy any additional tooling applications.
> > > - Sonataflow management console: An image that serves a
> production-ready
> > > webapp containing all runtime tooling features. Provides a way for
> > > developers to include their custom resources, such as custom forms and
> > > dashboards, which the users will be able to access. Includes security
> > > features. Provides information and executes actions by requesting a
> data
> > > index or gateway API.
> > >
> > > Em ter., 2 de abr. de 2024 às 23:06, Tiago Bento <
> [email protected]>
> > > escreveu:
> > >
> > > > Hi Paulo,
> > > >
> > > > I understand the ideia is to have an app dedicated exclusively to
> live
> > > > Serveless Workflows, but I guess it would be nice to understand the
> > > > medium/long term plan for this new console and Serveless Logic Web
> > Tools.
> > > >
> > > > You mentioned they would start very similar, which is fine IMHO, but
> > > > understanding a little more about the purpose of each one
> individually
> > and
> > > > how they both compose some sort of story would be great to the wider
> > > > audience.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Tiago Bento
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 2:34 PM Paulo Martins <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The new console creation proposed here is just a new standalone
> > webapp in
> > > > > kie-tools. It does not involve any changes in the runtime nor I
> > expect
> > > > any
> > > > > PRs outside of kie-tools if that is your concern.
> > > > >
> > > > > Inline answers.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, the management console consumes the data index GraphQL API
> to
> > show
> > > > > > its
> > > > > > > data.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well you can do that but you are enforcing the user to deploy
> data
> > > > index.
> > > > > > Just keep in mind the restriction. Any change how data index
> works
> > or
> > > > any
> > > > > > new change in the system structure should go in a new proposal.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > All runtime UIs depend on the data index since a long time ago,
> even
> > the
> > > > > Dev UI extensions. All the consoles have the ability to show
> > aggregated
> > > > > information of multiple runtime instances by using the data index.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > > Although processes and workflows share the same engine, there
> is
> > a
> > > > need
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > a different UI because it is consumed in a different way by the
> > user.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For
> > > > > > > example, the editor which shows the diagram preview with the
> > current
> > > > > > status
> > > > > > > of the process/workflow is different,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That is not correct. The engine is consumed in the same way
> > > > independently
> > > > > > on the flavor. Actually jbpm v7 has a way to trigger new
> processes
> > with
> > > > > > kafka or active mq.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I believe we are mixing engine and UI in the discussion. Just want
> to
> > > > make
> > > > > sure to clarify that all my observations were made from the tooling
> > side.
> > > > > With that in mind, there are different editors for workflows and
> > > > processes.
> > > > > Each console and Dev UI extension should show their own.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > with workflows there is a different
> > > > > > > way to trigger new instances using cloud events that do not
> > exist on
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > jBPM management console,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Keep in mind that the cloud events were there before serverless
> > > > workflow
> > > > > so
> > > > > > that way of triggering things was done for business automation.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > They might exist in the engine but this feature is not present in
> the
> > > > jBPM
> > > > > management console.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > the timeline works in a different way, hiding
> > > > > > > automatically generated nodes from the user, some labels are
> > > > different,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > so on.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Those are internal aspects of the engine and works in the same
> > manner
> > > > in
> > > > > > both.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not referring to engine aspects, but how the user sees them in
> > the UI
> > > > > is different for each context.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Dev UI extensions that we have for jBPMN and Sonataflow
> > already
> > > > > > > diverged in that way because of those differences.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is no divergence except for the representation of the
> process
> > > > > state.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The divergence is that they are physically different packages.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Although they share
> > > > > > > several common UI components, each one has their own webapp
> > because
> > > > of
> > > > > > > those specificities.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Em ter., 2 de abr. de 2024 às 13:56, Enrique Gonzalez Martinez
> <
> > > > > > > [email protected]> escreveu:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You wrote you are consuming from data index, isn't it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Related to start triggering things in the workflow engine, is
> > there
> > > > > > > > anything or any new feature regarding those operations that
> are
> > > > > > different
> > > > > > > > between workflows ? Codegen ? New endpoints ? If not, would
> not
> > > > mean
> > > > > a
> > > > > > > > duplication with just different ui ? I am just trying to
> > understand
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > need for a different UI.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > El mar, 2 abr 2024, 18:49, Paulo Martins <[email protected]
> >
> > > > > > escribió:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Enrique,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The existing consoles are for jBPM, the one I'm proposing
> is
> > for
> > > > > > > > serverless
> > > > > > > > > workflows, which has a different runtime tooling UI then
> > > > processes.
> > > > > > > This
> > > > > > > > > proposal does not cover anything related to data index
> > console.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Em ter., 2 de abr. de 2024 às 13:30, Enrique Gonzalez
> > Martinez <
> > > > > > > > > [email protected]> escreveu:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There is a mgmt console already to start workflows and
> > tasks.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What would be the difference ?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Regarding data index console i would say we dont have
> such
> > > > > feature.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I am pretty much about try to have tools separate as we
> do
> > have
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > addons
> > > > > > > > > > separated as well. Having everything in the same place
> > would
> > > > > break
> > > > > > > some
> > > > > > > > > > functionalities depending on the user deployment.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Also keep in mind there are already some component like
> the
> > > > > gateway
> > > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > centralize some operations.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So i would split things in two different issues.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > * Improvements in the current process instance console
> > > > (anything
> > > > > > > > missing)
> > > > > > > > > > * Data index console
> > > > > > > > > > * Any other thing not falling into this category.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > El mar, 2 abr 2024, 18:21, Paulo Martins <
> > [email protected]>
> > > > > > > > escribió:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi Alex,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I would say post 10.0.0 as this task has not started
> yet.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Em ter., 2 de abr. de 2024 às 11:46, Alex Porcelli <
> > > > > > > [email protected]
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > escreveu:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Paulo,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Is this a proposal for post or pre 10.0.0?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 10:34 AM Paulo Martins <
> > > > > > > [email protected]>
> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone,
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I am proposing we create a new management console
> for
> > > > > > workflows
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > incubator-kie-tools repository. For its first
> > version, it
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > same features provided in the Serverless Logic Web
> > Tools,
> > > > > > like
> > > > > > > > > > workflow
> > > > > > > > > > > > > instances and definitions list, with the
> possibility
> > to
> > > > > start
> > > > > > > > > > workflows
> > > > > > > > > > > > by
> > > > > > > > > > > > > their definitions or triggering events. All
> > information
> > > > > would
> > > > > > > > come
> > > > > > > > > > > from a
> > > > > > > > > > > > > data-index, whose URL would be passed on as an
> > > > environment
> > > > > > > > > variable.
> > > > > > > > > > > The
> > > > > > > > > > > > > added value of this new distribution is the
> offering
> > of
> > > > > > runtime
> > > > > > > > > > tooling
> > > > > > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > > > production environments.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The following packages would be created:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >  - sonataflow-management-console-webapp: Similarly
> to
> > > > what
> > > > > > was
> > > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sonataflow Dev UI extension, a webapp containing
> all
> > the
> > > > > UI,
> > > > > > > > > reusing
> > > > > > > > > > > > > already existent runtime tools components.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >  - sonataflow-management-console-image: New image
> to
> > > > serve
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > webapp.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >  - sonataflow-management-console-image-env: Image
> > > > > environment
> > > > > > > > > > > variables.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Kind Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Paulo Martins
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
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