Tiago,

You have good points, but this is beyond my knowledge and capabilities, in
what can and can’t be done with the current circumstances.

I think we need bring the Apache members that raised concern, mentors and
IPMC to give us proper guidance.

-
Alex


On Sat, Oct 11, 2025 at 1:46 PM Tiago Bento <[email protected]> wrote:

> Alex,
>
> My concern, on the other hand, is that we’re losing users and relevance by
> having too slow a cadence. If what you’re saying is indeed the case and
> there’s a “blocker” understanding by our mentors and IPMC members, I’d say
> we should ask them to reconsider. We’re making an important step in the
> right direction with the removal of the classic BPMN, DMN, and SceSim
> Editors. Plus there are very significant developments with a new SWF Editor
> as well, although it still needs some time to mature before the current SWF
> Editor can be fully replaced by it. Not to mention the great updates
> recently done to our websites and documentation. We’re still in the
> incubator, afterall, so I would expect showing steady progress towards
> compliance, while nurturing a healthy community by building excitement for
> existing and new contributors and members, to be more important than
> checking all the boxes.
>
> Support for Quarkus 3.15 LTS (the version on Apache KIE 10.1, our latest
> release) has already ended, so we’re forcing our user base to either run an
> unsupported version of Quarkus or resort to cumbersome exclusions and
> probable compatibility issues in order to use our technology.
>
> I think we need to amend that by releasing 10.2 ASAP, establishing a good
> release cadence so we keep up with the fast-paced rhythm of other projects
> that we so heavily depend on, while at the same time closing compliance
> gaps as we build momentum.
>
> I’m good with Jason’s proposal, and I’m certainly available to help too.
> Thanks!
>
> Regards,
>
> Tiago Bento
>
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 21:03 Alex Porcelli <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Thanks Jason and Kennedy for volunteering as RMs.
> >
> > Before moving forward with the 10.2 release, I’d like to raise an
> > important concern related to ASF release compliance.
> >
> > My current understanding, and probably our mentors as well as members
> > of the IPMC who already mentioned that our next releases are blocked
> > until this is addressed, is that we cannot proceed with a release that
> > includes Category X licensed source code in the source distribution.
> > Unfortunately, parts of our codebase still contain javax.* sources
> > that fall under Category X. These are required by Errai and other
> > GWT-related components, which means this impacts not only the editors
> > but the entire Dashbuilder codebase.
> >
> > I’m also particularly concerned about the org.kie.j2cl.tools library,
> > which although uses the org.kie group ID, is not part of the Apache
> > repositories. This library shades several sources licensed under
> > (EPL-2.0 OR GPL-2.0 WITH Classpath-exception-2.0), such as
> > Startup.java [1]. This situation seems incompatible with our release
> > requirements and should be reviewed carefully before proceeding.
> >
> > In other words, I do not think we can postpone resolving these issues
> > to a later release. For the other dependencies, such as Hibernate, the
> > plan makes sense, but we should first clarify the GWT-related
> > situation and the j2cl-tools dependency implications before finalizing
> > any release timeline.
> >
> > [1]
> >
> https://github.com/kiegroup/j2cl-tools/blob/main/jakarta-spec/ejb/src/main/java/jakarta/ejb/Startup.java
> >
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 1:31 PM Jason Porter <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > We started the discussion about a release in [1], thank you Alex. Since
> > we haven’t had any objections to performing a release, I’d like to
> propose
> > a rough timeline and some housekeeping items before we get into the
> gritty
> > details of executing a new release.
> > >
> > > Release Managers (RMs)
> > > I’d like to propose myself and Kennedy ([email protected]) as release
> > managers for Apache KIE 10.2. We welcome any additional help from anyone
> in
> > the community who can lend a hand. Kennedy and I will oversee the work
> and
> > manage the process. There will be steps and tasks we’ll need help
> > finishing, please expect to see emails asking for help.
> > >
> > > Future release preparation
> > > One of our goals is to simplify and improve the documentation around
> the
> > release process [2] so that other people can be release manager in the
> > future without too much extra work. This preparation for future releases
> > will hopefully allow us to gain traction and establish a rhythm for
> > quarterly releases next year.
> > >
> > > High-level tasks
> > > (Format is “Area: Task [Owner] — Target Date / Status”)
> > >
> > > - Process: Release proposal (this email) [Jason] -- Early Oct / WIP
> > >
> > > - Preparing: Verify 10.1 changes are merged into main [Kennedy] --
> Early
> > Oct / WIP
> > >
> > > - Preparing: Remove old RCs (#1686) [Kennedy] -- Early Oct / WIP
> > >
> > > - Code changes: Remove GWT-based BPMN/DMN/SceSim Editors [Tiago Bento]
> > -- Early Nov / WIP
> > >
> > > - Code changes: Verify/improve pipelines for push-button RCs [RMs] --
> > Early Nov / TODO
> > >
> > > - Outreach: Write release notes [RMs] -- Late Nov / TODO
> > >
> > > - Process: Community and IPMC votes [RMs] -- Late Nov / TODO
> > >
> > > - Outreach: Write and publish blog post [RMs] -- Dec / TODO
> > >
> > > - Outreach: Update website with 10.2 info [RMs] -- Dec / TODO
> > >
> > > - Process: Tag and publish 10.2 [RMs] -- Dec / TODO
> > >
> > > - Process: Update documentation with 10.2 content [RMs] -- Dec / TODO
> > >
> > >  All these tasks have been captured in a Milestone for 10.2, available
> > directly on GitHub. [3]
> > >
> > > Three important points:
> > > Apache KIE 10.1 was released on Quarkus 3.15 LTS, therefore our users
> > need an upgrade to Quarkus 3.20 LTS (currently on main). Skipping
> directly
> > to Quarkus 3.27 LTS would make it even harder for users to upgrade from
> > 10.1 to 10.2.
> > >
> > > Although we’re not addressing *all* Category X dependencies on 10.2,
> > we’re making progress by removing GWT-based Editors. Hibernate 7 and
> > Dashbuilder will be discussed separately for 10.3.
> > >
> > > Java 21 support doesn’t have automated checks on PRs yet. This is being
> > addressed separately [4] and will require manual verification for RC
> votes.
> > >
> > > I’m currently in the process of better understanding our pipelines and
> > recreating them locally within a VirtualBox Ubuntu VM to allow for faster
> > iteration. I hope to be able to share the VM, or at the very least the
> > steps to recreate the VM so anyone who wants to help can have the same
> > environment.
> > >
> > > I am optimistic we can accomplish this by the end of the year and give
> > everyone using Apache KIE a new release!
> > >
> > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/ww0508vspghwnkddcgc32kw2qc4tbos5
> > > [2]
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1wp9WWDJb6K5gyFddgC--7TSgIRpvxL7NrZgS4wAzGoE
> > > [3] https://github.com/apache/incubator-kie-issues/milestone/2
> > > [4] https://lists.apache.org/thread/q307sxkt8zkb88jbpq2c19ww2cf7qno7
> > >
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