I must be missing something, I don't see the problem. Users wouldn't have both
the combined jar and the single-module jars on the classpath together, so there
should not be an issue...
For example, assume our current log4j-core jar is split up into
* log4j-core-slim
* log4j-core-appender-db
* log4j-core-appender-mom
* log4j-core-appender-net
That is 4 jars where we used to have 1.
Now, the combined jar ("log4j-core-all", for example) would have all classes of
the above 4 jars.
Users can then use log4j-core-all + log4j-api similar to how they currently do,
no?
Are you worried about users combining log4j-core-all with
log4j-core-appender-db?
Remko
(Shameless plug) Every main() method deserves http://picocli.info
> On Apr 25, 2017, at 2:55, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
> Guess what? If I am understanding Stephen correctly uber jars are not going
> to work as you can’t have multiple modules that export the same package.
>
> Ralph
>
>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 10:43 AM, Remko Popma <remko.po...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> How many new modules are we talking about, concretely?
>>
>> Matt mentioned the StackOverflow questions about transitive dependencies
>> etc, but I imagine splitting log4j-core into 5 or more new modules will
>> also cause confusion... It won't be trivial for users to figure out which
>> of the many modules they do or don't need. The coarse granularity of the
>> current modules is a good thing for users.
>>
>> What problem are we trying to solve? And how can we solve it with the least
>> disruption to our users?
>>
>> Would it be an idea, for example, to provide separate jars for the separate
>> modules, but in addition create a combined jar (log4j-core-all) that
>> contains all the classes in log4j-core as well as the classes in the new
>> modules we split out from core?
>>
>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 2:00 AM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I agree with Ralph here. I'm sure we'll figure out rather quickly which
>>> modules are easy to put into rarely updated repositories.
>>>
>>>> On 24 April 2017 at 11:39, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer a hybrid approach. First things should be moved to
>>>> separate modules. Then, if they don’t seem to be modified frequently they
>>>> can be moved to a separate repo. For example, I think it would be OK for
>>>> the Flume Appender to be in a separate repo. It hasn’t changed in quite a
>>>> while and I can’t remember the last time it was modified due to changes
>>> in
>>>> Log4j it has and while continue to change with changes made in Flume
>>>> releases. I imagine we have quite a few components that are similar.
>>>>
>>>> Ralph
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 24, 2017, at 8:39 AM, Gary Gregory <garydgreg...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 24, 2017 2:38 AM, "Mikael Ståldal" <mikael.stal...@magine.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I fully agree with Matt's both proposals.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm skeptic to creating more repositories (than we already have)
>>> though.
>>>> I
>>>>> think that we should start by splitting out modules from log4j-core and
>>>>> keep those modules in the main repository with synchronized versioning
>>>> and
>>>>> releases, at least for the 2.9 release. We can always move those
>>> modules
>>>> to
>>>>> other repositories later if we want to.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not like more repos either. Since we have already gone down the
>>> more
>>>>> modules road, I say we keep going.
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is a lot of administrative work to create a new repository (as we
>>> have
>>>>> seen for log4j-scala), I don't want us to do all that work over and
>>> over
>>>>> again unless really necessary.
>>>>>
>>>>> We have a JIRA ticket for this:
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-1650
>>>>>
>>>>> I have already started by breaking out log4j-server:
>>>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LOG4J2-1851
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the next step is to break out plugins (layouts and appenders)
>>>> with
>>>>> optional 3rd party dependencies into their own modules.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 7:45 PM, Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think I brought this topic up like 3 years ago when I was working on
>>>>>> initial OSGi support, but now that we have 3 more years worth of code
>>>>>> additions and optional features, I think this might be a more
>>>> appropriate
>>>>>> time to discuss it again in light of experience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Building log4j-core itself already takes a long time, and many plugins
>>>>>> aren't updated very often at all. In the past, requiring users to
>>> simply
>>>>>> add log4j-core plus any transitive dependencies to use optional
>>> features
>>>>>> seemed to work well enough, but I still think that's a confusing
>>>>>> distribution mechanism as demonstrated by the numerous bug reports and
>>>>>> Stack Overflow posts regarding missing transitive dependencies for
>>>> various
>>>>>> features. I spent some time experimenting with Log4j Boot a little
>>> while
>>>>>> ago to help alleviate this problem, but this may be unnecessary if we
>>>> can
>>>>>> agree to modularize log4j-core itself.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have two different proposals, both of which can be used at the same
>>>>> time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Split out everything from log4j-core that requires 3rd party
>>>>>> dependencies (except for AsyncLogger, though perhaps we could consider
>>>>>> shading and renaming those classes like some other low level libraries
>>>> do
>>>>>> with JCTools). Ideally, I'd like to see each module have required
>>>>>> dependencies instead of optional ones, so that if, for instance, I
>>>> include
>>>>>> a "log4j-config-yaml" dependency, I know that Log4j will support YAML
>>>>>> configuration without having to specify the individual Jackson
>>>>>> dependencies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Split out from log4j-core a sort of log4j-spi module which defines
>>>>>> interfaces, abstract classes, and annotations for plugins that would
>>> be
>>>>>> promoted to the same level of backwards compatibility guarantees as
>>>>>> log4j-api. This would aid in cementing what we really wish to maintain
>>>>>> compatibility with in the backend while allowing other modules to have
>>>>> less
>>>>>> strict guarantees.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With proposal #1, I'd think that we could more easily start moving
>>>> modules
>>>>>> into separate repositories and release trains. Without #2, though,
>>> this
>>>>>> makes version support more annoying to handle, but that's what we'll
>>>> face
>>>>>> regardless as we separate more repositories. If we go this route, then
>>>>>> there will be no need for a Log4j Boot subproject.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you all think?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> [image: MagineTV]
>>>>>
>>>>> *Mikael Ståldal*
>>>>> Senior software developer
>>>>>
>>>>> *Magine TV*
>>>>> mikael.stal...@magine.com
>>>>> Grev Turegatan 3 | 114 46 Stockholm, Sweden | www.magine.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Privileged and/or Confidential Information may be contained in this
>>>>> message. If you are not the addressee indicated in this message
>>>>> (or responsible for delivery of the message to such a person), you may
>>>> not
>>>>> copy or deliver this message to anyone. In such case,
>>>>> you should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply
>>>>> email.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Matt Sicker <boa...@gmail.com>
>>>
>
>
