Agree on waiting for Lucene 11, otherwise it may become very difficult to
backport any related features into 10.x.

On Sat, Oct 11, 2025 at 5:58 PM Uwe Schindler <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> hi, I am on travel at the moment till end of October and won't be able to
> look into this. Basically we can move some parts of the MemorySegment
> supporting code to main sourceSet, but I don't want to touch that code too
> much. The nmost important thing si: No public API is allowed to have any
> internal Vector API signatures in public API (we don't have a check fo
> this), so we'd need to closely look at it. The reason why some of the code
> is in the java 25 sourceset is exactly because of this. E.g. the
> MemorySegment-based scoring.
>
> In the future we may add more MemorySegment based APIs into core (and
> remove all ByteBuffers, too), but this is some approach I wanted to look at
> after we have released Lucene 11.
>
> Uwe
> Am 09.10.2025 um 23:57 schrieb Kaival Parikh:
>
> For vector search in Lucene, functionality for memory access (on/off-heap
> -- using Panama FFM) and vectorization (using the Vector API --
> jdk.incubator.vector) is tightly coupled (see PanamaVectorUtilSupport
> <https://github.com/apache/lucene/blob/602bfbd9af0ee9027de45c1572527eee6b073841/lucene/core/src/java25/org/apache/lucene/internal/vectorization/PanamaVectorUtilSupport.java#L57>
> ). This made sense when it was originally added, because Panama FFM was
> in preview + Vector API was incubating.
>
> However, since Panama FFM was finalized in JDK22 (
> https://openjdk.org/jeps/454), I wonder if we should decouple it from
> vectorization now?
> This would mean exposing (and supporting!) top-level on/off-heap vector
> similarity functions from all VectorUtilSupport
> <https://github.com/apache/lucene/blob/8f68736e75609d13053420450ad451e52cba107d/lucene/core/src/java/org/apache/lucene/internal/vectorization/VectorUtilSupport.java#L25>
>  implementations
> (with Lucene providing one non-vectorized
> <https://github.com/apache/lucene/blob/8f68736e75609d13053420450ad451e52cba107d/lucene/core/src/java/org/apache/lucene/internal/vectorization/DefaultVectorUtilSupport.java#L26>
> and another Vector API powered vectorized
> <https://github.com/apache/lucene/blob/8f68736e75609d13053420450ad451e52cba107d/lucene/core/src/java25/org/apache/lucene/internal/vectorization/PanamaVectorUtilSupport.java#L57>
>  implementation),
> and only scoping non-finalized (i.e. incubating Vector API related)
> functionality in the MR-JAR (i.e. java25/
> <https://github.com/apache/lucene/tree/main/lucene/core/src/java25>)
>
> Although not a huge motivation, this would allow users that do not use
> vectorization to score vectors off-heap.
> The main benefit could be cleaner separation of functionality in the long
> term, also making it easier to write new VectorUtilSupport
> <https://github.com/apache/lucene/blob/8f68736e75609d13053420450ad451e52cba107d/lucene/core/src/java/org/apache/lucene/internal/vectorization/VectorUtilSupport.java#L25>
>  implementations
> that primarily work with MemorySegment APIs (for example a native
> implementation in # <https://github.com/apache/lucene/pull/13572>13572
> <https://github.com/apache/lucene/pull/13572>)
>
> Issue: https://github.com/apache/lucene/issues/15284
> PR: https://github.com/apache/lucene/pull/15285
>
> - Kaival
>
> --
> Uwe Schindler
> Achterdiek 19, D-28357 Bremenhttps://www.thetaphi.de
> eMail: [email protected]
>
>

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