Hello André, Bernhard
Le Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:49:15 +0200, Bernhard Dippold <bernh...@familie-dippold.at> a écrit : > > Hi André, all, > > thank you very much for this mail, giving a bit more background > information on the necessity to raise public knowledge for the ODF > file formats. > > IMHO this is not mainly a UX theme, but rather a topic for the > Marketing Project. Therefore I'd like to continue this thread on the > marketing dev list. > > It started with a GullFOSS blog by Lutz Hoeger: > http://blogs.sun.com/GullFOSS/entry/unified_odf_icons > where Lutz described why the OOo document icons are being replaced by > application independent icons containing a rectangle reading "ODF". > > We discuss these icons and possible drawbacks for the users on > disc...@ux.ooo: > http://ux.openoffice.org/servlets/BrowseList?listName=discuss&from=2283560&to=2283560&count=29&by=thread&first=1&windowSize=1000 > > But the main question is: How can OOo help to raise ODF awareness in > public? > > Introducing common icons for all the ODF applications is really a > great idea, if supported not only by OOo and StarOffice, but by all > other ODF applications too. And IMHO there must be a common marketing > strategy among all the supporting applications. > > Do you think, this could work? > > What else can we do to enforce ODF position against Microsoft's OOXML? > > Please comment on André's mail, therefore I include it here in full > length. > > Best regards > > Bernhard > > > André Schnabel schrieb: > > Hi all, > > > > I know we already have a thread on this - which holds very valuable > > and constructive feedback about the icons. > > > > Anyway - I'd like to open a new thread to tell some thoughts, why > > ODF icons are really useful, but the way we are going to introduce > > this icons is (imho) the wrong way. > > > > I fortunately had the chance to talk face to face with Lutz on the > > topic. This was really interesting (I forgot to get my dishes > > although I was hungry and Lutz surely made his family wait quite a > > while). I used some time to think about the issue - and just want > > to share my thoughts (If I'm going the wrong direction, Lutz might > > correct me). > > > > ODF is very important for OOo. The *Open* *Document* File format (to > > spell the full words) is one of the key selling points, as it > > ensures user's control on her files and contents, it ensures > > interoperability and vendor independence. All these points belong > > to the virtues of open source software. > > > > OpenOffice.org is one of (if not the) leading applications > > supporting ODF. So you may ask,why we should focus on ODF with our > > icons and not OOo? Quite easy: because OOo cannot cover all the > > aspects of document usage. While OOo is a classic "fat" and complex > > client application, user need also Web apps to view and edit files > > (like Google Docs), fast and lightweight desktop applications (like > > KOffice) and integrated solutions (like Lotus Notes / Symphony). It > > should be obvious that all these different types of applications > > should tell the same story "share your contents with our common > > Open Document File format". Having a common icon set would be > > extremely desirable. > > > > In addition, this common story needs to be spread quite urgently. We > > (OOo and the family of ODF applications) are already loosing the > > battle. Although even Microsoft admits, that "ODF has clearly won" > > - reality is telling a different story. Rob Weir once used Google > > search to compare the usage of ODF vs. OOXML. I tried this some > > days ago - and I must admit "ODF has clearly lost". Despite all the > > good reasons and all the success stories for ODF, the amount of > > OOXML documents on the web is twice as high as for ODF documents. > > All this, even though here is just only one fat classic office > > suite around to support these files. > > > > This will even change next year: with Office 2010 we will see people > > browsing, presenting and (later) editing their OOXML documents > > directly on the web (Using Microsoft Office). We already see people > > using OOXML in integrated collaboration suites (namely Microsoft > > Office) or browsing the documents off-line in lightweight viewer > > applications (Microsoft Office viewers). > > > > You see - Microsoft Office can cover all those needs - > > OpenOffice.org will hardly ever do the same. We can only compete as > > a family of applications supporting ODF. And we can only do so, if > > we raise ODF-awareness. > > > > So far, it is absolutely correct to introduce ODF mime type icons > > and use OpenOffice.org to promote this icons. > > > > But ... I think, we are on the wrong track, if we are going o > > introduce the icons in OOo 3.2. Why? > > > > What does it help, if OOo introduces new icons, but never ever spoke > > with other members of the "ODF application family" if they would > > join? Even the best icon set in OOo does not improve ODF-awareness, > > if Google Docs uses different icons. Lotus symphony might use > > another one, KOffice / KDE the third set. These all might be high > > quality icons, but there is no common *identity*. What we currently > > do is what Microsoft normally does - introduce something , because > > you are "the biggest player in the game" and wait for others to > > follow. But as we are not as big as Microsoft, it is (imho) > > extremely unlikely that other teams will follow. > > > > What needs to be done is to come to a common "family" agreement > > first. Means - IBM should agree to include the icons in Symphony, > > OpenDesktop.org should have the chance to accept the icon sets as > > desktop icons - apache and google should be contacted, if the icon > > desgin was ok for them to use on the web ... This is indeed time > > consuming and a hard job (and cannot be done within some weeks). > > But If we don't do this, we would gain nothing form "just changed > > icons", as these icons would not stand for "interoperability". > > > > > > Anyway - these are just my thoughts, everyone is free to share or > > not ;) To answer the title of this thread simply; the ODF Adoption Committee at the OASIS consortium is trying to have everyone adopt the same icons. I think we will succeed in doing this if every ODF stakeholder plays even. André does raise very legitimate concerns. I am not going to answer on whether ODF has lost against OOXML. Network effects make it so that MS Office is pushed on to people so they are unaware of what they are actually doing and that is something we knew 2 years ago. This being said, three things should be remembered: - OOXML as an ISO standard has *no known implementation*, even inside MS Office; what this suite uses is a proprietary, undocumented format (although it must derive from the file format known as Ecma 376) called the same way. As an example, I suggest you take a look at the efforts on the OOXML filters for OOo. It's really difficult to come up with something, which shows how undocumented the spec is, or worse, how non compliant it is with its official version. But I digress... - OOXML (whatever version you consider) will not be supported for ever by MS Office. In fact it might in effect stop to be supported... in MS Office 2010, precisely because Microsoft's biggest problem is that they have to play between the undocumented format, the Ecma 376, and the amendments of the OOXML ISO standard. Now they are trying to roll back changes they had done after the final ISO approval to the former version though stuffed ISO committees in order for them to be more or less compliant with the official specification. It's a big problem for them, so again: what file format are we talking about? Believe it or not, it will go away even if the notion will be floating around. Also, remember what they said about the MS Office 2003 file format. - ODF's biggest challenge is its future. Right now MS and some of its associates have been imposing delays over delays at the OASIS ODF TC, under various (good and bad) reasons. If ODF gets out of it, then it will end up being the standard file format, by mandate rather than by market or network effects. Best, Charles. --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@marketing.openoffice.org For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@marketing.openoffice.org
