Le samedi 13 mai 2017, 00:58:45 CEST Michael Osipov a écrit :
> Am 2017-05-13 um 00:30 schrieb Hervé BOUTEMY:
> > Le vendredi 12 mai 2017, 13:50:37 CEST Michael Osipov a écrit :
> >> Am 2017-05-12 um 08:25 schrieb Hervé BOUTEMY:
> >>> Jenkins build is not flaky: it is strict on dependency resolution from
> >>> cache, which is an intent, not a bug
> >> 
> >> This pretty much explains why a lot of ITs fail here at work with a
> >> empty repo. I will to work this through.
> > 
> > beware to not make the ITs fail with previous Maven versions
> 
> All I did is this:
> https://github.com/apache/maven-integration-testing/commit/5c01864e44c7c96ca
> c95545e8568acd044b6d7dc
ok, just tested with Maven 3.0.5: this does not add more failures (notice that 
existing failures show we already did some mistakes in the past regarding some 
updated ITs...)

> >>> that's why I don't like changing default plugins versions:
> >>> 
> >>> 1. depending on default plugins versions is a bad practice: IMHO, having
> >>> old plugins helps people know that they should not rely on it
> >> 
> >> This basically means that people would need to provide versions
> >> explicitly in the POMs starting with Maven 4.
> > 
> > ??? Why are you talking about Maven 4?
> 
> If you are saying that depending on default version is a bad practice it
> actually means to me that this should change in the new major. Shouldn't it?
this is a bad practice from a very long time, even in the Maven 2.x time: what 
should change more in next Maven version that would show it more, without 
breaking the magic that these defaults are used to? A warning message 
proposing to add pluginManagement corresponding to current Maven version used? 
Or propose a parent pom to add?

> >> Looks like a lot of
> >> hassle, doesn't it? I'd better see this in the Super POM rather embedded
> >> in a JAR.
> > 
> > ??? "embedded in a JAR"? what did I say that lead to something like this?
> 
> I assumed that your idea is rather nothing this up to the Super POM:
> ./maven-model-builder/src/main/resources/org/apache/maven/model/pom-4.0.0.xm
the super pom is in Maven: anything in Maven won't change that default will be 
dependent on Maven version used, which is not good for reproducibility

[...]

> >> Do you know completely reject the issue to be merged?
> > 
> > I'd like to have us understand each other:
> > - what do you expect to win?
> > - what do we loose?
> > I know doing this update is easy to do and corresponds to a lot of good
> > intentions on giving latest of everything for lazy users: but the
> > consequences are IMHO not so positive and are for the moment
> > misunderstood/ignored My position is not definitive, the discussion on
> > evaluating with multiple many eyes if this change is really good or not,
> > and goot at what, will make my final opinion on this: but sure, for the
> > moment, I'm not convinced this update goes in a good direction
> 
> It wasn't easy. I invested quite some time to make all ITs pass.
yes, changing the versions in Maven is easy, but updating ITs and checking 
that everything works better is harder: once again, I don't see the value to 
updating these default values, since people should define their own plugins 
versions in their pom. But I see value of having the same plugins versions in 
every Maven 3.x release, to have some de-facto reproducibility.

> Some
> plugins weren't even updated because they cause regressions in ITs which
> I still haven't investigated yet. Some even cause zlib failures in
> native code (known JVM issue due to bad code).
uh!

Regards,

Hervé

> 
> >> Michael
> >> 
> >>> Le jeudi 11 mai 2017, 22:30:43 CEST Michael Osipov a écrit :
> >>>> Who seconds MNG-6169 for 3.5.1? I have a fully working branch
> >>>> (MNG-6169_2/not-updated-MJAR-MCOMPILER) passing all ITs on Windows 10
> >>>> and FreeBSD 10.3-RELEASE.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Jenkins build is flaky with notorious file://target/null artifact not
> >>>> found.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Some bindings haven't been updated because they cause several ITs to
> >>>> fail (regressions). I will report them separately.
> >>>> 
> >>>> 
> >>>> Michael
> >>>> 
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