On Thu, 24 Mar 2022 at 01:18, Tibor Digana <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi Olivier, I have used the Maven branch according to your instructions. I
> have used the snapshot version of the plugin and JDK 1.8.0u05.
> Both implementations end up with the same build result. The only
> difference is the number of IF-Else branches in the implementation.
>
> I started Maven build twice for your and mine impl with these two configs:
>
> <argLine>-Xmx1m -XX:MaxPermSize=1m</argLine>
>
> <argLine>-FFFOOOOO</argLine>
>
>
> 1. The first config would end up with BUILD SUCCESS and it is expected
> because JUnit caught the OutOfMemoryError "during testing" and the plugin
> has reported it. The OOM did not happen in Surefire with my use case which
> we cannot guarantee what the JVM would do in another real scenario.
> 2. The second config is the *JVM initialization error* which happens
> "before testing" and the build fails with a failure as expected, BUILD
> FAILURE.
>
> Pls comment on these build results. These are expected by us, we can agree
> on them, right?
>

it's what I except yes
but for case 2 this is failing directly for me (which is really fine as I
definitely prefer this behaviour :) )

[*INFO*] *--- *maven-compiler-plugin:3.10.0:testCompile
*(default-testCompile)* @ maven-model* ---*

[*INFO*] Changes detected - recompiling the module!

[*INFO*] Compiling 38 source files to
/Volumes/workspace/dev/sources/maven/maven-core/maven-model/target/test-classes

[*INFO*]

[*INFO*] *--- *maven-surefire-plugin:3.0.0-M6-SNAPSHOT:test *(default-test)*
@ maven-model* ---*

[*INFO*] Using auto detected provider
org.apache.maven.surefire.junit4.JUnit4Provider

[*INFO*]

[*INFO*] -------------------------------------------------------

[*INFO*]  T E S T S

[*INFO*] -------------------------------------------------------

OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM warning: ignoring option MaxPermSize=1m; support
was removed in 8.0


Exception: java.lang.OutOfMemoryError thrown from the
UncaughtExceptionHandler in thread "main"

[*INFO*]

[*INFO*] Results:

[*INFO*]

[*INFO*] Tests run: 0, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0



my config is (but the difference looks to be platform specific)


mvn -v

*Apache Maven 3.8.4 (9b656c72d54e5bacbed989b64718c159fe39b537)*

Maven home: /Users/olamy/softs/maven/apache-maven-3.8.4

Java version: 1.8.0_322, vendor: Temurin, runtime:
/Library/Java/JavaVirtualMachines/temurin-8.jdk/Contents/Home/jre

Default locale: en_AU, platform encoding: UTF-8

OS name: "mac os x", version: "10.16", arch: "x86_64", family: "mac"



you definitely need to add IT test to your PR anyway the changes looks good
to me.



> 1. case
> *$ mvn verify -nsu -Dmaven.test.failure.ignore*
>
> [INFO] --- maven-surefire-plugin:3.0.0-M6-SNAPSHOT:test (default-test) @
> maven-model ---
> [INFO] Using auto detected provider
> org.apache.maven.surefire.junit4.JUnit4Provider
> [INFO]
> [INFO] -------------------------------------------------------
> [INFO]  T E S T S
> [INFO] -------------------------------------------------------
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ActivationFileTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.583 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ActivationFileTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ActivationOSTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.099 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ActivationOSTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ActivationPropertyTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.136 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ActivationPropertyTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ActivationTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.118 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ActivationTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.BuildTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.177 s - in org.apache.maven.model.BuildTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.CiManagementTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.22 s - in org.apache.maven.model.CiManagementTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ContributorTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.171 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ContributorTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.DependencyManagementTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.211 s - in org.apache.maven.model.DependencyManagementTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.DependencyTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.163 s - in org.apache.maven.model.DependencyTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.DeploymentRepositoryTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.198 s - in org.apache.maven.model.DeploymentRepositoryTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.DeveloperTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.201 s - in org.apache.maven.model.DeveloperTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.DistributionManagementTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.193 s - in org.apache.maven.model.DistributionManagementTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ExclusionTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.218 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ExclusionTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ExtensionTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.194 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ExtensionTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.IssueManagementTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.206 s - in org.apache.maven.model.IssueManagementTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.LicenseTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.216 s - in org.apache.maven.model.LicenseTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.MailingListTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 0.257 s - in org.apache.maven.model.MailingListTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.merge.ModelMergerTest
> [ERROR] Tests run: 1, Failures: 0, Errors: 1, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 6.742 s <<< FAILURE! - in org.apache.maven.model.merge.ModelMergerTest
> [ERROR]
> org.apache.maven.model.merge.ModelMergerTest.testMergedModelSerialization
>  Time elapsed: 2.502 s  <<< ERROR!
> java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
> at
> org.apache.maven.model.merge.ModelMergerTest.testMergedModelSerialization(ModelMergerTest.java:43)
>
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ModelTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 2.079 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ModelTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.NotifierTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.655 s - in org.apache.maven.model.NotifierTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.OrganizationTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.512 s - in org.apache.maven.model.OrganizationTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ParentTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.367 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ParentTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.PluginConfigurationTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.715 s - in org.apache.maven.model.PluginConfigurationTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.PluginContainerTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.316 s - in org.apache.maven.model.PluginContainerTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.PluginExecutionTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.451 s - in org.apache.maven.model.PluginExecutionTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.PluginManagementTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.972 s - in org.apache.maven.model.PluginManagementTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.PluginTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.502 s - in org.apache.maven.model.PluginTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.PrerequisitesTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.663 s - in org.apache.maven.model.PrerequisitesTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ProfileTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.202 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ProfileTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.RelocationTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.562 s - in org.apache.maven.model.RelocationTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ReportingTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.487 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ReportingTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ReportPluginTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.599 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ReportPluginTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ReportSetTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.287 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ReportSetTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.RepositoryPolicyTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed: 1.1
> s - in org.apache.maven.model.RepositoryPolicyTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.RepositoryTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.102 s - in org.apache.maven.model.RepositoryTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ResourceTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.85 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ResourceTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.ScmTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.237 s - in org.apache.maven.model.ScmTest
> [INFO] Running org.apache.maven.model.SiteTest
> [INFO] Tests run: 4, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
> 1.074 s - in org.apache.maven.model.SiteTest
> Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM warning: ignoring option MaxPermSize=1m;
> support was removed in 8.0
> [INFO]
> [INFO] Results:
> [INFO]
> [ERROR] Errors:
> [ERROR]   ModelMergerTest.testMergedModelSerialization:43 » OutOfMemory
> Java heap space
> [INFO]
> [ERROR] Tests run: 149, Failures: 0, Errors: 1, Skipped: 0
> [INFO]
> [ERROR]
>
> Please refer to
> C:\vcs\github\maven-core\maven-model\target\surefire-reports for the
> individual test results.
> Please refer to dump files (if any exist) [date].dump,
> [date]-jvmRun[N].dump and [date].dumpstream.
> [INFO]
> [INFO] --- maven-jar-plugin:3.2.2:jar (default-jar) @ maven-model ---
> [INFO] Building jar:
> C:\vcs\github\maven-core\maven-model\target\maven-model-3.8.6-SNAPSHOT.jar
> ...
> ...
> [INFO]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [INFO] Reactor Summary for Apache Maven 3.8.6-SNAPSHOT:
> [INFO]
> [INFO] Apache Maven ....................................... SUCCESS [
> 16.395 s]
> [INFO] Maven Model ........................................ SUCCESS [
> 57.064 s]
> [INFO] Maven Artifact ..................................... SUCCESS [
>  6.102 s]
> [INFO] Maven Plugin API ................................... SUCCESS [
>  7.027 s]
> [INFO] Maven Builder Support .............................. SUCCESS [
>  2.486 s]
> [INFO] Maven Model Builder ................................ SUCCESS [
> 15.773 s]
> [INFO] Maven Settings ..................................... SUCCESS [
>  2.945 s]
> [INFO] Maven Settings Builder ............................. SUCCESS [
>  5.509 s]
> [INFO] Maven Repository Metadata Model .................... SUCCESS [
>  3.903 s]
> [INFO] Maven Artifact Resolver Provider ................... SUCCESS [
> 13.878 s]
> [INFO] Maven Core ......................................... SUCCESS [01:19
> min]
> [INFO] Maven SLF4J Simple Provider ........................ SUCCESS [
>  3.678 s]
> [INFO] Maven Embedder ..................................... SUCCESS [
> 15.397 s]
> [INFO] Maven Compat ....................................... SUCCESS [
> 53.385 s]
> [INFO] Apache Maven Distribution .......................... SUCCESS [
> 27.397 s]
> [INFO]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [INFO] BUILD SUCCESS
> [INFO]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [INFO] Total time:  05:11 min
> [INFO] Finished at: 2022-03-23T01:15:10+01:00
> [INFO]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> 2. case
> *$ mvn verify -nsu -Dmaven.test.failure.ignore*
>
> [INFO] -------------------------------------------------------
> [INFO]  T E S T S
> [INFO] -------------------------------------------------------
> Unrecognized option: -FFFOOOOO
> Error: Could not create the Java Virtual Machine.
> Error: A fatal exception has occurred. Program will exit.
> [INFO]
> [INFO] Results:
> [INFO]
> [INFO] Tests run: 0, Failures: 0, Errors: 0, Skipped: 0
> [INFO]
> [INFO]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [INFO] Reactor Summary for Apache Maven 3.8.6-SNAPSHOT:
> [INFO]
> [INFO] Apache Maven ....................................... SUCCESS [
> 18.186 s]
> [INFO] Maven Model ........................................ FAILURE [
> 12.388 s]
> [INFO] Maven Artifact ..................................... SKIPPED
> ...   ...   ...
> [INFO] Apache Maven Distribution .......................... SKIPPED
> [INFO]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> [INFO] BUILD FAILURE
> [INFO]
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 22, 2022 at 11:44 AM Olivier Lamy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 22 Mar 2022 at 14:40, Tibor Digana <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Sorry for late reply.
>> >
>> > I have created a demo project
>> > https://github.com/Tibor17/maven.test.failure.ignore/  which simulates
>> > OOM.
>> >
>> > According to the definition of the parameter "maven.failure.test.ignore"
>> > the failures (also errors) should be ignored during testing.
>> > The word "during" is important because the time when it was a failure
>> > before JVM startup it was not a test failure - it is MOJO failure. The
>> > author who wrote this config param knew this difference.
>> > This perfectly fits JVM illegal arguments like -Xxxx.
>> > But I have investigated OOM for the same reason with one JVM. My
>> suspicion
>> > was not confirmed, see the next...
>> > If there are two JVMs, we are breaking the JVM during testing. It is a
>> very
>> > unlikely situation that the JVM argument would not fail in JVM1 but it
>> > would fail in JVM2 later. It may happen only if the user
>> > uses @surefire.forkCount@ interpolation but it is again very unlikely
>> and
>> > the users use it in current working directory configuration.
>> >
>> > I understand Olivier's PR but I have one objection to the code
>> branching in
>> > the class *SurefireHelper*. It is based on 3 levels but I have to
>> disagree
>> > due to there still should be 2 levels as before:
>> > 1. ignored failures (my change is only here - yellow - only added
>> throwing
>> > exception)
>> > 2. processes failures
>> >
>> > and so, I have created a PR
>> > https://github.com/apache/maven-surefire/pull/496
>> > Pls have a look into it, thx.
>> > This diff looks very simple:
>> >
>> > if ( reportParameters.isTestFailureIgnore() )
>> > {
>> >     String errorMessage = createErrorMessage( reportParameters,
>> > result, firstForkException );
>> >
>> >     if ( firstForkException instanceof SurefireBooterForkException )
>> >     {
>> >         throw new MojoExecutionException( errorMessage,
>> firstForkException
>> > );
>> >
>> >     }
>> >
>> >     log.error( errorMessage );
>> > }
>> > else
>> > {
>> >     throwException( reportParameters, result, firstForkException );
>> > }
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > *$ mvn test*
>> >
>> > [ERROR] Tests run: 1, Failures: 0, Errors: 1, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
>> > 2.445 s <<< FAILURE! - in org.apache.maven.OOMTest
>> > [ERROR] org.apache.maven.OOMTest.test  Time elapsed: 2.063 s  <<< ERROR!
>> > java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
>> > at org.apache.maven.OOMTest.test(OOMTest.java:15)
>> > [INFO]
>> > [INFO] Results:
>> > [INFO]
>> > [ERROR] Errors:
>> > [ERROR]   OOMTest.test:15 » OutOfMemory Java heap space
>> > [INFO]
>> > [ERROR] Tests run: 1, Failures: 0, Errors: 1, Skipped: 0
>> > [INFO]
>> > [INFO]
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > [INFO] BUILD FAILURE
>> > [INFO]
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> > *$ mvn test -Dmaven.test.failure.ignore*
>> >
>> > [ERROR] Tests run: 1, Failures: 0, Errors: 1, Skipped: 0, Time elapsed:
>> > 2.472 s <<< FAILURE! - in org.apache.maven.OOMTest
>> > [ERROR] org.apache.maven.OOMTest.test  Time elapsed: 2.262 s  <<< ERROR!
>> > java.lang.OutOfMemoryError: Java heap space
>> > at org.apache.maven.OOMTest.test(OOMTest.java:15)
>> > [INFO]
>> > [INFO] Results:
>> > [INFO]
>> > [ERROR] Errors:
>> > [ERROR]   OOMTest.test:15 » OutOfMemory Java heap space
>> > [INFO]
>> > [ERROR] Tests run: 1, Failures: 0, Errors: 1, Skipped: 0
>> > [INFO]
>> > [ERROR]
>> >
>> > Please refer to
>> > C:\vcs\github\maven.test.failure.ignore\target\surefire-reports for the
>> > individual test results.
>> > Please refer to dump files (if any exist) [date].dump,
>> > [date]-jvmRun[N].dump and [date].dumpstream.
>> > [INFO]
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > [INFO] BUILD SUCCESS
>> > [INFO]
>> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>>
>> Please use a project with multiple modules, not a single one where you can
>> see the line with OOME.
>> Any project with a huge number of modules will hide this and nobody will
>> ever notice it.
>>
>>
>>  git clone -b first-module-fail https://github.com/apache/maven
>> maven-core
>>
>>  cd maven-core
>>
>>
>>  [INFO] --- maven-assembly-plugin:3.3.0:single (create-distro-packages) @
>> apache-maven ---
>> [INFO] Reading assembly descriptor: src/main/assembly/bin.xml
>> [INFO] Building zip:
>>
>> /Volumes/workspace/dev/sources/maven/maven-core/target/maven-core/apache-maven/target/apache-maven-3.8.6-SNAPSHOT-bin.zip
>> [INFO] Building tar:
>>
>> /Volumes/workspace/dev/sources/maven/maven-core/target/maven-core/apache-maven/target/apache-maven-3.8.6-SNAPSHOT-bin.tar.gz
>> [INFO]
>> [INFO] --- maven-checkstyle-plugin:3.0.0:check (checkstyle-check) @
>> apache-maven ---
>> [INFO]
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> [INFO] Reactor Summary for Apache Maven 3.8.6-SNAPSHOT:
>> [INFO]
>> [INFO] Apache Maven ....................................... SUCCESS [
>>  3.220 s]
>> [INFO] Maven Model ........................................ SUCCESS [
>>  4.734 s]
>> [INFO] Maven Artifact ..................................... SUCCESS [
>>  3.142 s]
>> [INFO] Maven Plugin API ................................... SUCCESS [
>>  1.763 s]
>> [INFO] Maven Builder Support .............................. SUCCESS [
>>  1.288 s]
>> [INFO] Maven Model Builder ................................ SUCCESS [
>>  5.129 s]
>> [INFO] Maven Settings ..................................... SUCCESS [
>>  0.694 s]
>> [INFO] Maven Settings Builder ............................. SUCCESS [
>>  1.730 s]
>> [INFO] Maven Repository Metadata Model .................... SUCCESS [
>>  1.470 s]
>> [INFO] Maven Artifact Resolver Provider ................... SUCCESS [
>>  4.255 s]
>> [INFO] Maven Core ......................................... SUCCESS [
>> 19.075 s]
>> [INFO] Maven SLF4J Simple Provider ........................ SUCCESS [
>>  0.972 s]
>> [INFO] Maven Embedder ..................................... SUCCESS [
>>  4.293 s]
>> [INFO] Maven Compat ....................................... SUCCESS [
>> 10.350 s]
>> [INFO] Apache Maven Distribution .......................... SUCCESS [
>>  4.898 s]
>> [INFO]
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> [INFO] BUILD SUCCESS
>> [INFO]
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> [INFO] Total time:  01:07 min
>> [INFO] Finished at: 2022-03-22T20:19:24+10:00
>> [INFO]
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> even CI is green
>>
>> https://ci-maven.apache.org/job/Maven/job/maven-box/job/maven/job/first-module-fail/
>> so all looks good to merge a PR...
>> but hey in fact a module has not run any tests...
>> Do you really think it's right? (yes this problem exists for a very very
>> long time but we can choose to fix problems even after a long period)
>> Does your PR fix that?
>>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sat, Mar 19, 2022 at 12:17 PM Slawomir Jaranowski <
>> > [email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > I start to feel that we first try to define technical details but we
>> > don't
>> > > know for what.
>> > > Each business requirement should be resolved as simply as possible
>> from a
>> > > technical perspective.
>> > > In other ways we will start to build complicated and many features
>> which
>> > > probably were not needed at all.
>> > >
>> > > Please first define business requirements with examples, next we can
>> find
>> > > technical ways to cover it.
>> > >
>> > > Example scenario:
>> > >
>> > > Businesses requirement:
>> > >   We want to collect history of test result in order to detect flaky
>> > tests,
>> > > analize tests execution time, etc
>> > >
>> > > Given:
>> > > - build is done by CI system
>> > > - there is system which collect reports for executed tests and build
>> > > history of it
>> > > - there are broken tests in build - we know them and accept (eg, on
>> some
>> > > os)
>> > >
>> > > When:
>> > >  - build finished with success on CI
>> > >
>> > > Then:
>> > >  - all tests result are reported
>> > >  - failed tests are reported
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > sob., 19 mar 2022 o 06:27 Christoph Läubrich <[email protected]>
>> > > napisał(a):
>> > >
>> > > > Hi Tibor,
>> > > >
>> > > > just to make it clear, I don't talkin about log-levels here but how
>> to
>> > > > intepret/handle a failure/failing/crashing test.
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Am 18.03.22 um 21:54 schrieb Tibor Digaňa:
>> > > > > Christoph, just let me briefly explain the log level hierarchy.
>> > > > > If you select WARN log level, then ERROR can be printed too.
>> > > > > Similar with INFO, means that WARN and ERROR would be printed as
>> > well.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > The real decision making in the plugin is a bit more complicated,
>> see
>> > > the
>> > > > > pull request https://github.com/apache/maven-surefire/pull/478
>> > > > > After I have replied to this email, I would verify the behavior of
>> > the
>> > > > > plugin simulating OOM.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > T
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Fri, Mar 18, 2022 at 5:42 AM Christoph Läubrich <
>> > > [email protected]>
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > >> No I think more about
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> if (severity == "WARN") {
>> > > > >>     log.warn("There is something wrong");
>> > > > >> } else if (severity == "ERROR") {
>> > > > >>     throw new MojoFailureException("...") {
>> > > > >> } else {
>> > > > >>     throw new MojoExecutionException("...") {
>> > > > >> }
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> That way the plugin can handle any error/failure/... in a way
>> that
>> > the
>> > > > >> user can "downgrade" a certain problem if desired.
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >> Am 18.03.22 um 00:06 schrieb Tibor Digana:
>> > > > >>> @Christoph
>> > > > >>> FATAL ,   WARN ,   ERROR
>> > > > >>> They are log levels?
>> > > > >>> The plugin does not control the log level after caught
>> exception in
>> > > > Maven
>> > > > >>> core. The Maven Core does!
>> > > > >>> I think it's time to make a demo.
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>> On Thu, Mar 17, 2022 at 6:21 AM Christoph Läubrich <
>> > > > [email protected]>
>> > > > >>> wrote:
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>>> Hi Tibor,
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> it shouldn't be to hard to guess another property like
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> maven.test.jvmcrash=FATAL
>> > > > >>>> maven.test.failure=WARN
>> > > > >>>> maven.test.error=ERROR
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> :-)
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>> Am 16.03.22 um 12:25 schrieb Tibor Digana:
>> > > > >>>>> Hi Christoph,
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>> Such a granularity with error/failure might be also an
>> additional
>> > > > >>>>> requirement but still you miss the third option to JVM error
>> > which
>> > > is
>> > > > >>>>> different from test error/failure - they don;t have the same
>> > > meaning.
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>> T
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 10:57 AM Christoph Läubrich <
>> > > > >> [email protected]
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> Just wondering but maybe it would be better to configure the
>> > > > severity
>> > > > >>>>>> instead of a true/false, something like:
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> maven.test.failure=WARN
>> > > > >>>>>> maven.test.error=ERROR
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> would only warn about failing tests but thrw exception if
>> > starting
>> > > > the
>> > > > >>>>>> test fails?
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>> Am 14.03.22 um 10:52 schrieb Tibor Digana:
>> > > > >>>>>>> Romain, it is not a bug.
>> > > > >>>>>>> Don't consider this as a bug. It was a feature request for
>> > change
>> > > > by
>> > > > >>>>>>> Olivier, and not a bug.
>> > > > >>>>>>> I closed both issues years ago but not because of ignorance
>> but
>> > > > >> because
>> > > > >>>>>> the
>> > > > >>>>>>> appearance of the exceptional behavior is a wrong compromise
>> > and
>> > > > >> which
>> > > > >>>>>> does
>> > > > >>>>>>> not help anyone and even it makes the situation worse
>> because
>> > > > >> typically
>> > > > >>>>>>> other group of users would fire a new Jira tickets. You
>> would
>> > not
>> > > > be
>> > > > >>>> able
>> > > > >>>>>>> to satisfy two contradictory parties which have completely
>> > > > different
>> > > > >>>>>>> opinions, and so we use to introduce new params and this
>> way we
>> > > > >> satisfy
>> > > > >>>>>>> both parties, they may combine the params as they wish, and
>> > > > everybody
>> > > > >>>>>> would
>> > > > >>>>>>> be happy and nobody would claim. Many technical solutions
>> might
>> > > > >> exist,
>> > > > >>>>>> e.g.
>> > > > >>>>>>> param=boolean|string or new param=boolean, whatever.
>> > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>> The truth is that this problem with (java --add-reads ...)
>> > > happened
>> > > > >> in
>> > > > >>>>>> our
>> > > > >>>>>>> ASF environment on Java 8 which in good configuration would
>> not
>> > > > >> happen
>> > > > >>>>>> and
>> > > > >>>>>>> should not.
>> > > > >>>>>>> It is not right way that we abuse
>> "maven.test.failure.ignore"
>> > > which
>> > > > >>>> would
>> > > > >>>>>>> tell us "Hey, you have illegal configuration in your build
>> > system
>> > > > and
>> > > > >>>> it
>> > > > >>>>>>> would not work by JDK design", it is not the goal of the
>> plugin
>> > > to
>> > > > >> tell
>> > > > >>>>>> you
>> > > > >>>>>>> that you have configured the build wrong because it won't
>> and
>> > the
>> > > > >> same
>> > > > >>>>>>> configuration of the plugin (not the build)  says "ignore
>> the
>> > > > error".
>> > > > >>>>>>> Yesterday I discussed this problem with Herve and we
>> > > independently
>> > > > >>>>>> observed
>> > > > >>>>>>> equal opinions and that's not everything because we
>> understood
>> > > that
>> > > > >> the
>> > > > >>>>>>> purpose of the config parameter is to not throw MOJO
>> exception
>> > > > which
>> > > > >> is
>> > > > >>>>>>> right, but the exceptional behavior should have an exact new
>> > > param
>> > > > >> for
>> > > > >>>>>> the
>> > > > >>>>>>> exact use case.
>> > > > >>>>>>> SPI for this parameter is too much because no user would
>> > > implement
>> > > > it
>> > > > >>>>>> for a
>> > > > >>>>>>> trivial parameter;; the SPI is used to be implemented by
>> > > frameworks
>> > > > >> or
>> > > > >>>>>>> systems or application servers but this is not our case.
>> > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 14, 2022 at 9:11 AM Romain Manni-Bucau <
>> > > > >>>>>> [email protected]>
>> > > > >>>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>> +1
>> > > > >>>>>>>> if it is to investigate a CI issue, it is generally easy to
>> > add
>> > > > >> debug
>> > > > >>>>>>>> insights (by code or agent) so a SPI sounds like the sanest
>> > for
>> > > > the
>> > > > >>>>>> plugin
>> > > > >>>>>>>> to me.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>> Romain Manni-Bucau
>> > > > >>>>>>>> @rmannibucau <https://twitter.com/rmannibucau> |  Blog
>> > > > >>>>>>>> <https://rmannibucau.metawerx.net/> | Old Blog
>> > > > >>>>>>>> <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github <
>> > > > >>>>>>>> https://github.com/rmannibucau> |
>> > > > >>>>>>>> LinkedIn <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book
>> > > > >>>>>>>> <
>> > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://www.packtpub.com/application-development/java-ee-8-high-performance
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>> Le lun. 14 mars 2022 à 09:08, Guillaume Nodet <
>> > > [email protected]>
>> > > > a
>> > > > >>>>>> écrit
>> > > > >>>>>>>> :
>> > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> If that's not currently possible, maybe a SPI should be
>> > > provided
>> > > > so
>> > > > >>>>>> that
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> people can use plug in extensions to analyze the test
>> result
>> > > and
>> > > > >>>>>> override
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> it if necessary (transforming an error into a warning,
>> > storing
>> > > > >>>> results
>> > > > >>>>>>>> in a
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> way which is easier to use by other tools later...) ?
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> Guillaume
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> Le lun. 14 mars 2022 à 07:43, Christoph Läubrich <
>> > > > >>>> [email protected]>
>> > > > >>>>>> a
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> écrit :
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> I also agree that the test at least should run, we use
>> this
>> > > > >> property
>> > > > >>>>>> to
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> run the test and produce result and later on have a
>> > buildstep
>> > > > that
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> analyze the results (and probably fail the build job).
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> As it is not recommend, I wonder what is the recommended
>> way
>> > > to
>> > > > >>>>>> archive
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> something similar?
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Am 14.03.22 um 06:29 schrieb Olivier Lamy:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 at 11:55, Tibor Digana <
>> > > > >> [email protected]
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> In case of the user property
>> *maven.test.failure.ignore*
>> > the
>> > > > >> MOJO
>> > > > >>>>>>>> must
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> not
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> throw any exception which is interpreted by the Maven
>> Core
>> > > as
>> > > > >>>> BUILD
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> SUCCESS.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> This is a very simple reduction of the problem
>> description.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The documentation here
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://maven.apache.org/surefire/maven-surefire-plugin/test-mojo.html#testFailureIgnore
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> says
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> "Set this to "true" to ignore a failure during testing.
>> Its
>> > > use
>> > > > >> is
>> > > > >>>>>>>> NOT
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> RECOMMENDED, but quite convenient on occasion"
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Personally, I understand this to ignore failures in
>> junit
>> > > > results
>> > > > >>>> BUT
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> at
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> least I want the tests to run.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I guess this is how our users use this feature (feature
>> we
>> > do
>> > > > not
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> recommend
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> by the way...)
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> And this is perfectly explained here
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SUREFIRE-1426?focusedCommentId=16188077&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels%3Acomment-tabpanel#comment-16188077
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> there is a difference between ignoring some junit
>> failures
>> > > and
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> ignoring a
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> configuration error because some jvm args has been
>> > > > misconfigured
>> > > > >>>> for
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> many
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> reasons and surefire cannot start.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> If I follow your reasoning ("MOJO must not throw any
>> > > exception
>> > > > ")
>> > > > >>>> we
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> should
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> ignore every surefire configuration error and keep
>> running
>> > > the
>> > > > >>>> build
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> until
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the end and says BUILD SUCCESS
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> what about
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> mvn test -Dsurefire.rerunFailingTestsCount=notanumber
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> -Dmaven.test.failure.ignore=true
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> we should not throw any exceptions as you said below and
>> > keep
>> > > > >>>> saying
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> BUILD
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> SUCCESS?
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> argLine is a configuration element as any others so it
>> > should
>> > > > >> fail
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> directly
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and not be ignored especially when the surefire plugin
>> > cannot
>> > > > >> run.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> We have received an internal requirement to change the
>> > > > behavior
>> > > > >> of
>> > > > >>>>>>>> the
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> user
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> property *maven.test.failure.ignore* so that the
>> behavior
>> > > will
>> > > > >>>> have
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> one
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> exception.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Suppose that you have JDK 1.8 but you use:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> /jre/java --add-reads ...
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> The outcome is JVM exit with an error message.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I agree with Herve who also says that
>> > > > >> *maven.test.failure.ignore*
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> should
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> not allow the MOJO to throw the exception. It is not a
>> > > typical
>> > > > >> JVM
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> segmentation fault or another JVM crash where we
>> cannot do
>> > > > >>>> anything
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> about
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> it, and where the entire build would crash in the
>> command
>> > > line
>> > > > >>>> which
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> of course means that the build cannot normally be
>> > > interpreted
>> > > > as
>> > > > >>>>>>>> BUILD
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> SUCCESS. So we are still on the same level of failures
>> > > related
>> > > > >> to
>> > > > >>>>>>>> the
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> test
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> purposes.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> On the other hand, Olivier has reopened the issues
>> > > > SUREFIRE-1426
>> > > > >>>> and
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> SUREFIRE-1681 where the exceptional behavior of the
>> > feature
>> > > is
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> expected.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> This is exactly the reason why I closed these tickets
>> > > several
>> > > > >>>> years
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> ago
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> and
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> my proposal was to not to have any exceptions in the
>> > feature
>> > > > >>>>>>>> behavior
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> and
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> the proposal was to introduce a new user property for
>> > exact
>> > > > use
>> > > > >>>>>>>> cases.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> The next idea, which comes from two developers, would
>> > > provide
>> > > > us
>> > > > >>>>>>>> with
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> same non exceptional and exact behavior of the user
>> > property
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> *maven.test.failure.ignore* but it would also provide
>> us
>> > > with
>> > > > >> new
>> > > > >>>>>>>> user
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> property in the case with fine grade control of the
>> build
>> > > > >> errors,
>> > > > >>>>>>>> e.g.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> *maven.test.jvm.error.ignore*.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> with a default of?
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> honestly I just see this new parameter as introducing
>> more
>> > > > >>>> complexity
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> in
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> an
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> already very complex code and not worth it.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> again read both issue's comments and my comments.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Please try to have a user POV and think about making our
>> > > users'
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> experience
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> more simple.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> This should be very simple:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> If surefire forked jvm cannot start it's build error and
>> > > cannot
>> > > > >> run
>> > > > >>>>>>>> any
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> tests, it's a problem users want to know immediately
>> > because
>> > > it
>> > > > >> can
>> > > > >>>>>>>> be
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> for
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> a lot of reasons: wrong argLine, not enough memory on
>> the
>> > > > system
>> > > > >>>>>>>> etc...
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> AND AGAIN it is very different from ignoring junit
>> result
>> > > > >> failures.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Try to look at a user point of view and think about
>> what is
>> > > the
>> > > > >> use
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> case
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> of
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the property maven.test.failure.ignore=true, I guess
>> 99% of
>> > > the
>> > > > >>>> time,
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> users
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> wants to run all their tests (even on a CI with
>> different
>> > > > matrix)
>> > > > >>>> so
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> they
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> can collect all the tests results which has runned to
>> see
>> > if
>> > > > >> there
>> > > > >>>> is
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> any
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> issue for some combination of their matrix and
>> eventually
>> > > turn
>> > > > >> the
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> result
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> as unstable (this is a very typical use case in Jenkins
>> and
>> > > was
>> > > > >>>> even
>> > > > >>>>>>>> a
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> built in feature of the previous Jenkins Maven plugin)
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> BUT if for any reasons one of the module do not start
>> his
>> > > tests
>> > > > >>>>>>>> because
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> the
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> jvm cannot be start the users will not see that and
>> will be
>> > > > >> totally
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> blind
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> until maybe someone look inside a very very large log
>> file
>> > > > (which
>> > > > >>>>>>>> means
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> probably never)
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Long story short as my experience as a user facing this
>> > > > >>>> problem/bug:
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I had the case on a very large multi modules (~250
>> modules)
>> > > > build
>> > > > >>>> of
>> > > > >>>>>>>> a
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> very
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> used open source project.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I was using this maven.test.failure.ignore property but
>> one
>> > > of
>> > > > >> the
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> modules
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> had a bad jpms configuration for a jdk17 profile on the
>> CI.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> The build has a matrix of 2 os and 4 jdks and different
>> > maven
>> > > > run
>> > > > >>>>>>>> which
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> means around ~60k tests and a Jenkins log file about 40M
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> So because of this property the build was not failing
>> and
>> > > kept
>> > > > >>>> saying
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> BUILD
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> SUCCESS for weeks/months and basically not testing one
>> > module
>> > > > >> with
>> > > > >>>>>>>> jdk
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> 17...
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> And frankly you do not dig into a log file of 32M after
>> > each
>> > > > run
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> especially
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> when it says success...
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> 3 days after the first release claiming supporting jdk
>> 17
>> > we
>> > > > >>>>>>>> received a
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> bug
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> report about a something not working with jdk17....
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> and guess what? Where was this feature supposed to be
>> > tested?
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> so I frankly believe we do not need a complex new
>> property,
>> > > in
>> > > > >> this
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> case
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> this should fail directly because this will improve user
>> > > > >>>> experience.
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> I would like to open the discussion on this topic.
>> You're
>> > > > >> welcome!
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> Tibor
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> [email protected]
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> --
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>> > > > >>>>>>>>> Guillaume Nodet
>> > > > >>>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>> > > > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>>
>> > > > >>>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>> > > > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>>
>> > > > >>>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>> > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >>
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected]
>> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Sławomir Jaranowski
>> > >
>> >
>>
>

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