On Feb 12, 2008 9:53 PM, Jason van Zyl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 12-Feb-08, at 11:39 AM, Milos Kleint wrote: > > > anyway, > > > > I fixed both my and Daniels problem here: > > http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=rev&revision=627055 > > > > Great. Hardly tragic. Probably took you less time to patch it then > write the email.
It is actually serious. It's playing with the goodwill. And most users vote with their feet, just a few bother to report or complain. That's a lesson we learned the hard way with NetBeans in the early days.. > > I also didn't figure that embedding Archetype in netbeans you would > just run the command line stuff. We tried to make it easier to embed. I don't want to include and depend on yet another pile of alpha software. I don't have anything against the archetype components specifically, but depending on them directly requires me to sychronize my release cycle with the libraries. That's something I don't want to do with the archetype stuff. Additionally, having a loose coupling allows me to let people choose what version to use (sort of) in case of specific troubles.. > > Again, another argument for not auto-updating under any circumstance > and leave this to the user. Moving across major versions will happen > and we just shouldn't upgrade unless the user asks for it. I'm not > saying we shouldn't keep the behavior in the archetype plugin, if > desired, but this would prevent incompatibilities from whacking users > in the face. I agree here. Automatic updates are the sort of evil that will hit almost everyone. It seems that people feel cheated then and get frustrated at Maven. Not sure why, but it seems common. A "no suprises and ess magic" kind of strategy should help. > > If that patch is in, I'll add a fix for the incorrect version > information being generated and stage another release. Cool. Thanks. Milos > > > > Milos > > > > On Feb 12, 2008 7:52 PM, Milos Kleint <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Feb 12, 2008 6:45 PM, Jason van Zyl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> > >>> On 12-Feb-08, at 8:16 AM, Milos Kleint wrote: > >>> > >>>> Jason, > >>>> > >>>> this is not about mimicking old behaviour. The new code is plain > >>>> wrong > >>>> for this case. > >>> > >>> Mimicking the behavior means making it work like the previous > >>> version. > >>> > >>> It would also have been nice if both you and Dan actually looked at > >>> this before it was released. I don't think it's that much work to > >>> change it, but appeared from almost all people talking about > >>> Archetype > >>> absolutely hated the old mechanism. Writing scripts to work around > >>> it, > >>> begging for another method to select. > >> > >> > >> Well, I've been testing archetypeng for some time, I even applied > >> patches. The batch mode actually works because I fixed it as far as I > >> remember. I've tested the staged version in netbeans integration with > >> my 2 custom archetypes that work with 2.0-alpha-1 only. In the > >> netbeans integration I use the batch mode exclusively, because I > >> don't > >> want *any* user interaction to happen when the archetype plugin runs. > >> I need the UI to populate all fields before starting archetype. > >> That's > >> why I didn't catch this issue. I only did when I released my 2 > >> archetypes and was updating documentation, describing how to create > >> from archetype on command-line. > >> > >> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> When you define the archetype's groupId, artifactId and version on > >>>> command line, the plugin should not offer you a list to pick from. > >>>> That's especially tragic when the archetype you want is not in the > >>>> list. Period. > >>> > >>> I would consider that a bug, sure, I don't think I would categorize > >>> that as tragic. > >> > >> We advertise the archetype plugin in the docs as *the* easy way to > >> setup a maven project. All documentation is now wrong. (in a sense > >> that what is described to happen is not happening). What message does > >> it send? > >> > >> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> If all archetype properties are defined, it should just create the > >>>> project, if some are missing ask for missing values. > >>>> Catalogues should help, not be in the way. > >>>> > >>> > >>> Well, I'm sure glad you helped so much while we were developing the > >>> new version. > >>> > >>> Both you and Dan had every opportunity to look at the code along the > >>> way, look at the staged release and voice your concerns. > >> > >> see my reply above.. > >> > >>> > >>> Nothing is irreparable. But generally it would be better if you're > >>> going to voice a concern try and do it before the release. By all > >>> accounts I could see no one I could see actually like the old > >>> cumbersome way. Evidenced by the proliferation of tools that cropped > >>> up to present lists to people. > >>> > >>>> The only workaround I figured out, is to run maven in batch mode > >>>> and > >>>> declare archetype ids and all properties on command line. Strangely > >>>> enough the central repository needs to be declared on command > >>>> line as > >>>> well. I'm for calling this a bug too. > >>> > >>> Nothing tragic, it can be fixed. We can create a new goal (like > >>> archetype:generate which is more accurate or archetype:create-from- > >>> list) for the behavior that we created, and have the "create" goal > >>> mimic the old behavior. How's that sound? I think people who like > >>> the > >>> old way are in the minority but not that hard to fix. > >> > >> well. Why introduce additional complexity? IMHO it's more than > >> sufficient to keep one goal, but when the user declares the archetype > >> id on the command line, don't show a list but use the information > >> provided by the user. > >> > >> Milos > >> > >> > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Milos > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Feb 12, 2008 4:30 PM, Jason van Zyl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>>>> We can create a new goal name, whatever it be, and mimic the old > >>>>> behavior. > >>>>> > >>>>> The archetypes don't need to reside in central. I've been taking > >>>>> the > >>>>> list off the Wiki and turning it into the internal catalog. We can > >>>>> keep the list itself in that case for the command line. For the > >>>>> Eclipse use case we can read the internal catalog, or the Nexus > >>>>> index > >>>>> source which does require the Archetypes to be in central. And > >>>>> what's > >>>>> the problem with that in your case if you're syncing to central. > >>>>> > >>>>> At any rate, we can fix that goal and mimic the new behavior. > >>>>> Might > >>>>> be > >>>>> good to try and raise these things when we've asked repeatedly for > >>>>> people to try it. Most people seem to hate that notation below > >>>>> so I > >>>>> asked Raphael to make the batch mode non-default and provide the > >>>>> list. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On 12-Feb-08, at 7:02 AM, Daniel Kulp wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> The new archetype plugin seems to have broken the normal > >>>>>> instructions on > >>>>>> how to create new projects. It doesn't seem to work. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> For example, according to: > >>>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CAMEL/Creating+a+new+Spring+based+Camel+Route > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I should just need to run: > >>>>>> mvn archetype:create \ > >>>>>> -DarchetypeGroupId=org.apache.camel \ > >>>>>> -DarchetypeArtifactId=camel-router \ > >>>>>> -DarchetypeVersion=1.1.0 \ > >>>>>> -DgroupId=myGroupId \ > >>>>>> -DartifactId=myArtifactId > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> That worked last week. Now I get a big list of archetypes to > >>>>>> select > >>>>>> from and the camel stuff isn't there. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> So, how the heck is this now supposed to work? If projects have > >>>>>> archetypes in central, how are users supposed to use them? I > >>>>>> really > >>>>>> think we need to get a new version out that allows the previous > >>>>>> instructions to work. This really breaks a BUNCH of projects > >>>>>> instructions for creating samples/projects. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> J. Daniel Kulp > >>>>>> Principal Engineer, IONA > >>>>>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>> http://www.dankulp.com/blog > >>>>>> > >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Thanks, > >>>>> > >>>>> Jason > >>>>> > >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> Jason van Zyl > >>>>> Founder, Apache Maven > >>>>> jason at sonatype dot com > >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> > >>>>> happiness is like a butterfly: the more you chase it, the more it > >>>>> will > >>>>> elude you, but if you turn your attention to other things, it will > >>>>> come > >>>>> and sit softly on your shoulder ... > >>>>> > >>>>> -- Thoreau > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>> > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> > >>> Jason > >>> > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- > >>> Jason van Zyl > >>> Founder, Apache Maven > >>> jason at sonatype dot com > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------- > >>> > >>> A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming > >>> is > >>> not worth knowing. > >>> > >>> -— Alan Perlis > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Thanks, > > Jason > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Jason van Zyl > Founder, Apache Maven > jason at sonatype dot com > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > We know what we are, but know not what we may be. > > -- Shakespeare > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
