My humble opinion is that the Milagro mentors guide the project to follow the simplest and most clear definition of the Apache Way for communication and openness. Drop your reliance on external channels until and only if they can be used to complement the main channels.
Mailing lists are your communication mechanism and history of such communication. Many projects rely on JIRA and its email notification of activity for communication and discussion at the feature/JIRA level. Use Apache Git and just let the github be a mirror of Apache and have contributors submit patches via JIRA. You can make this a two way integration later. It seems that reliance on previous process is getting in your way to be successful here. Trying to retrofit or to accommodate other preferences and things that you are familiar with is only going to stand in your way. Simplify and adopt the Apache Way as purely as possible then extend it in ways that will grow your community but not just to use what you are familiar with. Where do the mentors stand on this? On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 5:49 AM, Patrick Hilt <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear all, > It's clear there is a need to discuss. Unfortunately Miracl has gone > through a range of changes which impeded our support for Milagro. However, > we still do believe that Milagro is a viable project and would like to see > it succeed, albeit with a more focused scope. Looking at the news, it > certainly seems a necessity to have an official, open crypto focused > project. > > Overall, I totally agree with Go. We need to find a way to communicate and > manage a project that works for the contributors. Our "issues" are > particularly around real-time communication and GitHub integration (i.e. > having bi-directional sync'ing with Apache Git in place, which we've tried > to find about a while back). > > Along those lines, I'd be happy if we could have some guidance from the > community. > > As for "reviving" and moving forward I'd like to propose we > 1. determine communication channels beyond just the mailing list; the > Milagro Slack channel is not viable imho, since people with random email > domains can't add themselves. So we 'd need something else... again, input > here would be much appreciated! > 2. determine how we're going to manage source code and stick with that > (github vs. git); from my perspective I have a strong preference for > github. So any info on bidirectional sync or best practises / approaches > from other Apache projects would be hugely appreciated > 3. take stock of where we are currently in terms of contributors, pending > code, etc. > 4. chart a course forward in small incremental steps based on the above > > I believe it would be useful to do 3. and 4. in-person / in-call, at least > partially. > > Cheers, > Patrick > > > > On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 5:31 AM, Go Yamamoto <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Right. This is an issue on openness. > > > > We are willing to follow the openness. > > For example, our code is open on the internet. > > https://github.com/CertiVox-i3-NTT > > However, we have difficulty in merging the code with other forks that are > > to be pushed to incubator-milagro. > > One of the reason is lack of the communication channels that decide the > > merge. > > > > Please advise us how we should communicate. > > > > NTT would like to contribute open source projects and have decided to > > contribute to Milagro project because we support the idea. We also think > > the current situation is undesirable, and wish to change too. > > > > I think we need an open ticketing board like by Jira or a shared issue > > board in GitHub. > > All the problems in the project are shared and acknowledged there, and > all > > the changes will be merged/rejected by ordinary pull-requests by git. > > It is the best way we know, however, I am always willing to learn. > > > > Go > > > > ________________________________________ > > From: anthony shaw <[email protected]> > > Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 6:40:24 PM > > To: [email protected] > > Cc: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Retire Milagro > > > > Hi Go, > > > > I thought this project was dead as well, your comment "we prefer > > communicating using Slack and Hangout", probably highlights most of the > > issue. This is not about preference, it's about openness; if you need to > be > > on the core team or part of NTT to be involved in the conversation, this > is > > not an open-source project at all. It's "source open" as Scott Hanselman > > likes to say, your source code is on the internet, that's it. > > > > You have to have an open and active community, otherwise if/when NTT > > decides to pull funding from Milagro, the project dies. > > > > The ASF does not enforce use of SVN, actually, most projects are now on > Git > > (and mirrored to GitHub). The Milagro project is untouched > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-milagro > > > > Regards, > > Anthony Shaw > > > > On Mon, Jun 26, 2017 at 7:47 AM, Go Yamamoto <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > I agree we need to discuss. > > > > > > I think the critical problem is in communication, not necessarily in > the > > > level of activities. > > > > > > I do not think Milagro is inactive. We NTT have been trying to > > > contribute the code for more than a year, and still we have 10Ks lines > of > > > code that wait for discussion on merge. > > > > > > The problem is in the communication styles that divides the project. > > For > > > example, we prefer communicating using Slack and Hangout, not in > mailing > > > lists. As far as I understand, most of technical discussions are in > > those > > > channels, and the code is stored and merged in GitHub spaces. As the > > > result the activities are not visible from the projects' official > > > channels. That is the problem. > > > > > > I know one would say that is not an Apache project and the style is not > > an > > > Apache way. I agree it makes sense. However, we are not simply > > accustomed > > > to write codes communicating by mailing lists and using SVN. Should we > > > learn to? To be, or not to be, or to look for a balanced style. That > is > > > the point. > > > > > > To start the discussion, I believe we can agree we all hope this > project > > > is fruitful and productive. > > > > > > I think Milagro still has a promising scope and good use cases in IoT, > > and > > > I would like to continue leading the NTT's engineering team to > > contribute. > > > > > > Go > > > ________________________________________ > > > From: John D. Ament <[email protected]> > > > Sent: Sunday, June 25, 2017 3:25:15 AM > > > To: [email protected] > > > Subject: [DISCUSS] Retire Milagro > > > > > > All, > > > > > > I'd like to bring up the idea of retiring the Milagro podling. You've > > > been incubating for about 18 months and from what I can tell there is > no > > on > > > list activity nor commits happening. > > > > > > John > > > ________________________________ > > > This email message is intended for the use of the person to whom it has > > > been sent, and may contain information that is confidential or legally > > > protected. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this > > > message in error, you are not authorized to copy, distribute, or > > otherwise > > > use this message or its attachments. Please notify the sender > immediately > > > by return e-mail and permanently delete this message and any > attachments. > > > NTT I3 makes no warranty that this email is error or virus free. Thank > > you. > > > ________________________________ > > > > > ________________________________ > > This email message is intended for the use of the person to whom it has > > been sent, and may contain information that is confidential or legally > > protected. If you are not the intended recipient or have received this > > message in error, you are not authorized to copy, distribute, or > otherwise > > use this message or its attachments. Please notify the sender immediately > > by return e-mail and permanently delete this message and any attachments. > > NTT I3 makes no warranty that this email is error or virus free. Thank > you. > > ________________________________ > > >
