nice! Regards, Jakob
2011/7/28 Gerhard Petracek <gerhard.petra...@gmail.com>: > great! > regards, > gerhard > > http://www.irian.at > > Your JSF powerhouse - > JSF Consulting, Development and > Courses in English and German > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces > > > > 2011/7/28 Leonardo Uribe <lu4...@gmail.com> >> >> Hi >> >> Ok, it is done. Now core has a new module called shared and >> shared-impl is gone. For checkout 2.0.x or 2.1.x (trunk), compile >> shared 4.0.x or 4.1.x is no longer necessary, since all code is now on >> 2.0.x/2.1.x places. I'll do the additional adjustments on myfaces site >> soon. The idea is redesign the site for be more user friendly. >> >> regards, >> >> Leonardo Uribe >> >> 2011/7/25 Leonardo Uribe <lu4...@gmail.com>: >> > Hi >> > >> > If no objections I'll do the changes on 2.0.x and 2.1.x next Wednesday. >> > >> > regards, >> > >> > Leonardo Uribe >> > >> > 2011/7/24 Gerhard Petracek <gerhard.petra...@gmail.com>: >> >> hi leo, >> >> i made a short test and the usage looks fine. >> >> furthermore, i had a quick look at the build files and besides the >> >> obvious >> >> differences (which are required for your suggestion) i saw some details >> >> which are different compared to the branch created by jakob. >> >> if those differences are fine for everyone (esp. jakob and mark), we >> >> can use >> >> this suggestion (at least for now) since it improves the current >> >> situation. >> >> regards, >> >> gerhard >> >> >> >> http://www.irian.at >> >> >> >> Your JSF powerhouse - >> >> JSF Consulting, Development and >> >> Courses in English and German >> >> >> >> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2011/7/23 Leonardo Uribe <lu4...@gmail.com> >> >>> >> >>> Hi >> >>> >> >>> To close this problem quickly (I'm getting tired of this issue, and I >> >>> want to do some performance stuff on shared), I created a branch with >> >>> the proposal for 2.1.x: >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/myfaces/core/branches/refactor_shared_2_1_x/ >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> http://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/myfaces/shared/branches/refactor_shared_4_1_x/ >> >>> >> >>> There you can see in practice what I'm saying. A profile was added on >> >>> shared to sync code in a semi-automatic way. Just type mvn install >> >>> -Dsynch-shared=true and then commit the changes. Now core has a new >> >>> module and use shade plugin, but since all package names were renamed >> >>> from shared to shared-impl, the confusion about packages is gone (and >> >>> shared-impl too), and you can see the advantage of shade over unpack >> >>> goal: the module is added as dependency on your pom. Only some >> >>> selected classes were let on the same package to ensure backward >> >>> compatibility. >> >>> >> >>> In all this refactoring, care must be taken to preserve svn history, >> >>> doing the changes directly on svn repo instead copy and commit. >> >>> >> >>> If no objections, I'll do this refactor soon for 2.0.x / 2.1.x . >> >>> >> >>> The "spread" build idea for myfaces will be done after commit this >> >>> code. >> >>> >> >>> regards, >> >>> >> >>> Leonardo Uribe >> >>> >> >>> 2011/7/13 Leonardo Uribe <lu4...@gmail.com>: >> >>> > Hi >> >>> > >> >>> > I have checked the questions I had and here are the answers (You can >> >>> > try it without any special setup, just mvn clean install and then >> >>> > mvn >> >>> > site -Pgenerate-site): >> >>> > >> >>> > What happen with the site documentation? >> >>> > >> >>> > - javadoc report is not generated (????). >> >>> > - x-ref report doesn't show shared code. >> >>> > - JDepend and PMD reports doesn't take shared. >> >>> > >> >>> > All that is expected, because in practice we are "shading" shared. >> >>> > >> >>> > Isn't any problem with @JSFWebConfigParam? >> >>> > >> >>> > As I was expecting, the report doesn't take any init param on >> >>> > shared, >> >>> > because those sources are not scanned anymore. >> >>> > >> >>> > How debugging looks with the proposed code? >> >>> > >> >>> > It works. You see org.apache.myfaces.shared instead >> >>> > org.apache.myfaces.shared-impl, but the line breaks are ok. I seems >> >>> > there was some fix on maven shade plugin related to this problem. >> >>> > >> >>> > What I see in this code is just use shade plugin instead unpack goal >> >>> > for shared. But I have to say that the evidence is clear: unpack >> >>> > goal >> >>> > fits better. >> >>> > >> >>> > But the main big problem is how to get rid of shared. First I have >> >>> > to >> >>> > remember why we want so badly to get rid of it: >> >>> > >> >>> > 1. When there is an error there, you have to compile shared core, >> >>> > shared-impl and myfaces core impl to reflect the change. If you are >> >>> > debugging on a web app, you have to compile it too. In short this >> >>> > means a lot of time waiting. >> >>> > 2. When there is an error there, users get confused, because it is >> >>> > another project. >> >>> > >> >>> > I think this alternative is possible >> >>> > >> >>> > 1. the base code on shared should live as a module on myfaces-core >> >>> > project. >> >>> > 2. shared project should do a hard copy of the code inside myfaces >> >>> > core project. This means just sync the code from time to time and >> >>> > release it. In this way projects like tomahawk or any other can >> >>> > "shade" or "unpack" that code an use it. >> >>> > >> >>> > The next step is have a "spread" build of myfaces. This means have >> >>> > some modules like this: >> >>> > >> >>> > api >> >>> > shared >> >>> > impl-base >> >>> > impl-ee6 >> >>> > ..... >> >>> > >> >>> > impl (the sum of shared + impl-base + impl-ee6 + ...) >> >>> > bundle >> >>> > >> >>> > If shared is a module just like api or impl in myfaces folder, you >> >>> > can >> >>> > setup a project that use api + all separate modules. In this way, if >> >>> > there is an error on shared, you can compile just that module and >> >>> > your >> >>> > web application and that's it!. Sounds almost obvious, isn't it?. >> >>> > >> >>> > Do this means change all package names on impl from shared-impl to >> >>> > shared. Each module will have its own myfaces-metadata.xml, so >> >>> > builder >> >>> > plugin will work correctly. >> >>> > >> >>> > Suggestions are welcome. >> >>> > >> >>> > regards, >> >>> > >> >>> > Leonardo Uribe >> >>> > >> >>> > 2011/7/11 Jakob Korherr <jakob.korh...@gmail.com>: >> >>> >> Hi, >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I agree with Gerhard. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Unfortunately I did not try a whole release + site build with the >> >>> >> new >> >>> >> configuration since you always do that, Leo. So please check on >> >>> >> that >> >>> >> as soon as possible for you. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Regards, >> >>> >> Jakob >> >>> >> >> >>> >> 2011/7/11 Gerhard Petracek <gerhard.petra...@gmail.com>: >> >>> >>> hi leo, >> >>> >>> actually we should talk about the priority. >> >>> >>> imo it has a very high priority! >> >>> >>> regards, >> >>> >>> gerhard >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> http://www.irian.at >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Your JSF powerhouse - >> >>> >>> JSF Consulting, Development and >> >>> >>> Courses in English and German >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> 2011/7/11 Leonardo Uribe <lu4...@gmail.com> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> Hi Gerhard >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> Does somebody reviewed if the site documentation is generated >> >>> >>>> correctly? Isn't any problem with @JSFWebConfigParam? has anybody >> >>> >>>> debugged something with the proposed code?. That's the unresolved >> >>> >>>> questions I want to solve before apply it (I already mention that >> >>> >>>> without response, right?), but if somebody can answer those >> >>> >>>> questions >> >>> >>>> could speed it up. >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> I'm not asking for a loooooot of time. But note there are other >> >>> >>>> issues >> >>> >>>> right now ( improve error logging and exception handling, >> >>> >>>> MYFACES-3216, fix #{component} refs and isRendered(), improve >> >>> >>>> site >> >>> >>>> documentation ), that takes priority over this one. >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> regards, >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> Leonardo Uribe >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >>>> 2011/7/11 Gerhard Petracek <gerhard.petra...@gmail.com>: >> >>> >>>> > hi leo, >> >>> >>>> > right now i don't see a reason why it should take a lot of >> >>> >>>> > time. in >> >>> >>>> > the >> >>> >>>> > end >> >>> >>>> > you just have to look at the resulting artifacts. >> >>> >>>> > the javadoc plugin is no blocker (if there is no official >> >>> >>>> > release, >> >>> >>>> > we >> >>> >>>> > can do >> >>> >>>> > an external release. as soon as there is an official release of >> >>> >>>> > it, >> >>> >>>> > we >> >>> >>>> > can >> >>> >>>> > switch back to it). >> >>> >>>> > please provide a bit more information about the "other issues". >> >>> >>>> > regards, >> >>> >>>> > gerhard >> >>> >>>> > http://www.irian.at >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> > Your JSF powerhouse - >> >>> >>>> > JSF Consulting, Development and >> >>> >>>> > Courses in English and German >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> > 2011/7/11 Leonardo Uribe <lu4...@gmail.com> >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> Hi >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> Please don't commit the changes until I do a final review. >> >>> >>>> >> That >> >>> >>>> >> will >> >>> >>>> >> take some time, so please be patient, there are other issues >> >>> >>>> >> on >> >>> >>>> >> core >> >>> >>>> >> right now that we need to solve too. Anyway we can't commit >> >>> >>>> >> the >> >>> >>>> >> code >> >>> >>>> >> without a release of javadoc plugin. >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> regards, >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> Leonardo Uribe >> >>> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> 2011/7/11 Jakob Korherr <jakob.korh...@gmail.com>: >> >>> >>>> >> > Hi, >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >> right - there are no entries in the manifest. they will be >> >>> >>>> >> >> generated >> >>> >>>> >> >> for the separated osgi bundle/s during the build (based on >> >>> >>>> >> >> the >> >>> >>>> >> >> build >> >>> >>>> >> >> config). >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> > Jep! That was the idea in the first place (look at the >> >>> >>>> >> > branch >> >>> >>>> >> > and >> >>> >>>> >> > you'll see no bundle plugin in myfaces-api or myfaces-impl, >> >>> >>>> >> > but >> >>> >>>> >> > in >> >>> >>>> >> > myfaces-bundle). >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> > @Leo: From my point of view, the branch is complete. In >> >>> >>>> >> > addition, >> >>> >>>> >> > Mark >> >>> >>>> >> > committed my patch for MJAVADOC-320, thus the javadoc >> >>> >>>> >> > generation >> >>> >>>> >> > does >> >>> >>>> >> > already work too (if you use the latest 2.8.1-SNAPSHOT of >> >>> >>>> >> > the >> >>> >>>> >> > javadoc-plugin). >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> > Here is a short summary of the proposed changes: >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> > - remove felix bundle plugin executions from myfaces-api and >> >>> >>>> >> > myfaces-impl (we have myfaces-bundle for OSGi). >> >>> >>>> >> > - use maven-shade-plugin with package relocation (shared to >> >>> >>>> >> > shared_impl) in myfaces-impl instead of >> >>> >>>> >> > a) ant-task to rename source from shared to shared_impl >> >>> >>>> >> > (myfaces-shared-impl project) >> >>> >>>> >> > b) dependency plugin to unpack shared-impl-sources.jar in >> >>> >>>> >> > myfaces-impl and build-helper-plugin to add these sources as >> >>> >>>> >> > a >> >>> >>>> >> > new >> >>> >>>> >> > source folder >> >>> >>>> >> > - use maven-javadoc-plugin with >> >>> >>>> >> > includeSourceDependencies=true >> >>> >>>> >> > for >> >>> >>>> >> > shared (and impl-ee6) in order to include the javadocs of >> >>> >>>> >> > shared >> >>> >>>> >> > in >> >>> >>>> >> > the myfaces-impl javadocs >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> > These changes have the following implications: >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> > - all imports of myfaces-shared code in myfaces-impl will go >> >>> >>>> >> > to >> >>> >>>> >> > org.apache.myfaces.shared.* instead of >> >>> >>>> >> > org.apache.myfaces.shared_impl.*, because relocation is done >> >>> >>>> >> > on >> >>> >>>> >> > class-file-basis instead of source-file-basis. >> >>> >>>> >> > - myfaces-shared-core will be a direct dependency of >> >>> >>>> >> > myfaces-impl at >> >>> >>>> >> > development time, thus enabling hot-deployments,... when >> >>> >>>> >> > changing >> >>> >>>> >> > stuff in shared at development time. >> >>> >>>> >> > - myfaces-shared-impl project will be obsolete (b/c - as >> >>> >>>> >> > already >> >>> >>>> >> > mentioned - myfaces-impl uses shared-core instead of >> >>> >>>> >> > shared-impl). >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> > If there are no objections, I will merge in the changes from >> >>> >>>> >> > the >> >>> >>>> >> > branch >> >>> >>>> >> > soon! >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> > Regards, >> >>> >>>> >> > Jakob >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> > 2011/7/8 Leonardo Uribe <lu4...@gmail.com>: >> >>> >>>> >> >> Hi Gerhard >> >>> >>>> >> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >> Ok, now that part has sense. >> >>> >>>> >> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >> There are still some things to check before apply the >> >>> >>>> >> >> change. >> >>> >>>> >> >> Please >> >>> >>>> >> >> let me know when all code is on the branch and I'll do a >> >>> >>>> >> >> final >> >>> >>>> >> >> in-deep >> >>> >>>> >> >> check. >> >>> >>>> >> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >> regards, >> >>> >>>> >> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >> Leonardo Uribe >> >>> >>>> >> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >> 2011/7/8 Gerhard Petracek <gerhard.petra...@gmail.com>: >> >>> >>>> >> >>> hi leo, >> >>> >>>> >> >>> right - there are no entries in the manifest. they will be >> >>> >>>> >> >>> generated >> >>> >>>> >> >>> for the >> >>> >>>> >> >>> separated osgi bundle/s during the build (based on the >> >>> >>>> >> >>> build >> >>> >>>> >> >>> config). >> >>> >>>> >> >>> regards, >> >>> >>>> >> >>> gerhard >> >>> >>>> >> >>> http://www.irian.at >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> Your JSF powerhouse - >> >>> >>>> >> >>> JSF Consulting, Development and >> >>> >>>> >> >>> Courses in English and German >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> 2011/7/8 Leonardo Uribe <lu4...@gmail.com> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> Hi >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> Ok, I agree it is not a problem, but if that so, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> shouldn't we >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> remove >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> OSGi entries on the manifests in myfaces-api and impl >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> jars? >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> just >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> to >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> prevent possible confusions about that. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> regards, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> Leonardo Uribe >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> 2011/7/8 Gerhard Petracek <gerhard.petra...@gmail.com>: >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > +1! >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > regards, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > gerhard >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > http://www.irian.at >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > Your JSF powerhouse - >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > JSF Consulting, Development and >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > Courses in English and German >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > 2011/7/8 Mark Struberg <strub...@yahoo.de> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> Leo, SpringDM does much more work usually to tweak >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> something >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> for >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> their >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> needs! >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> They can just use the myfaces-bundle.jar as each and >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> every >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> other >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> OSGi >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> user >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> does too. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> What I meant was more: we shall _not_ do something >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> ugly >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> just to >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> make >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> OSGi >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> happy ^^ >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> So using the maven-shade-plugin is perfectly fine and >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> will >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> be a >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> big >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> benefit for cleaning up the shared project! >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> LieGrue, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> strub >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> --- On Fri, 7/8/11, Leonardo Uribe <lu4...@gmail.com> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> wrote: >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > From: Leonardo Uribe <lu4...@gmail.com> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > Subject: Re: Use maven-shade-plugin to prevent >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > duplicate >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > code >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > - >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > revisited >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > To: "MyFaces Development" <dev@myfaces.apache.org> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > Date: Friday, July 8, 2011, 3:20 PM >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > Hi >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > I don't think the OSGi mention is off-topic. In >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > theory >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > it >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > is possible >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > to setup myfaces-api and myfaces-impl jars in a OSGi >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > container using >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > SpringDM. The changes proposed just prevents that >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > possible >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > setup to >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > work, but that one was the first known successful >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > environment to use. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > Note in this case the are no problems with >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > FactoryFinder, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > because >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > Spring DM provide a thread context classloader >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > (TCCL) >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > that >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > fix that. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > The changes proposed impose the restriction that >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > anyone >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > who >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > wants to >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > use OSGi should use myfaces-bundle jar instead. But >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > from >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > other point >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > of view it is clear that in such environment users >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > could >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > want to use >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > mojarra api and myfaces impl, even if that is not >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > really >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > possible. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > Note the previous arguments are questionable of >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > course, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > because in >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > practice people will use myfaces-bundle jar, keeping >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > things >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > simple >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > because you have to deal only with one bundle. So it >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > does >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > not suppose >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > a problem, just a "side effect" to keep in mind. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > I think it is required to specify in more details >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > which >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > are >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > the "side >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > effects" of the changes proposed. Note on a previous >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > mail i >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > said "... >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > I haven't look the code provided in deep ...", but I >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > guess >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > the patch >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > proposed will prevent @JSFWebConfigParam annotations >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > to >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > be >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > scanned for >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > myfaces builder plugin and consequently break this >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > generated site >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > page: >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > http://myfaces.apache.org/core20/myfaces-impl/webconfig.html >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > http://myfaces.apache.org/core21/myfaces-impl/webconfig.html >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > I don't see very clear the "benefits" of the change. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > I >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > suppose it >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > enhance debugging in some way, but is that true? can >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > I >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > do a >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > change on >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > shared, and do not have to recompile to see the >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > change? >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > If >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > I set a >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > break point on shared-core, the debugger will stop >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > there? I >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > would like >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > to see a strong (and maybe heavier and tedious but >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > necessary) >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > argumentation before do the change. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > regards, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > Leonardo Uribe >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > 2011/7/8 Gerhard Petracek >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > <gerhard.petra...@gmail.com>: >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > hi mark, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > that's a bit off-topic ;) we already (have to) >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > provide >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > osgi bundles. we just >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > continue to do the same with the shade-plugin. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > regards, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > gerhard >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > http://www.irian.at >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > Your JSF powerhouse - >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > JSF Consulting, Development and >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > Courses in English and German >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > Professional Support for Apache MyFaces >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > 2011/7/8 Mark Struberg <strub...@yahoo.de> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> Hi folks! >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> There are 2 problems with JSF under OSGi >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> a) OSGi is in reality a _big_ mess and not really >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > worth the troubles ;) >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> It _should_ make it possible to elegantly switch >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > implementations, but in >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> practice you need to import/export all packages >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > explicitly, even those which >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> are only used indirectly. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> b) the design of the JSF-api could be more clear >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > with separation (hey, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> it's 10 years old!). It is not possible to use a >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > MyFaces-impl with a >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> mojarra-api and vice versa, because methods like >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> FacesContext#getCurrentInstance() (and similar) >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > access impl classes from the >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> API package. This makes it pretty hard to work >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > OSGi. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> LieGrue, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> strub >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> --- On Fri, 7/8/11, Jakob Korherr >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> <jakob.korh...@gmail.com> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > wrote: >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > From: Jakob Korherr <jakob.korh...@gmail.com> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > Subject: Re: Use maven-shade-plugin to >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > prevent duplicate code - >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > revisited >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > To: "MyFaces Development" >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > <dev@myfaces.apache.org> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > Date: Friday, July 8, 2011, 1:09 PM >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > Hi Leo, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > Yes, I remember that you did some work >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > related to this >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > stuff. Some >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > comments about your problems: >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > 1) If you use myfaces-impl, the packages >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > really are >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > *.shared_impl.* >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > (shade does the relocation on the classes). >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > But a part of >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > this >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > statement is still true - we need to check >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > config files >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > with >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > references to shared and shared_impl. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > 2) That's not true. We solved this problem in >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > CODI, as >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > described. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > Please take a look at the code ;) >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > 3) We don't need to execute felix bundle >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > plugin directly >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > in >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > myfaces-impl, b/c it won't work in an OSGi >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > environment >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > anyway (see >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > e.g. FactoryFinder problems). We have >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > myfaces-bundle for >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > this matter! >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > Regards, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > Jakob >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > 2011/7/7 Leonardo Uribe <lu4...@gmail.com>: >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > Hi >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > I haven't look the code provided in >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > deep, but long >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > time ago I tried >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > it. In that time I saw the following >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > problems: >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > 1. There are some classes on shared that >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > are used >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > outside it. For >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > example, see >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > org.apache.myfaces.shared.webapp.webxml.DelegatedFacesServlet. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > We need to detect all similar cases and >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > move those >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > classes to >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > myfaces-impl, but renaming shared with >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > shared-impl, or >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > just create >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > classes that extends from the ones in >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > shared, to >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > preserve backward >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > behavior. In theory, the affected >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > packages are: >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > org.apache.myfaces.shared_impl.webapp.webxml >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > org.apache.myfaces.shared_impl.taglib >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > org.apache.myfaces.shared_impl.taglib.core >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > 2. Generated artifacts (-sources.jar, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > -javadoc.jar) >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > has problems. It >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > is clear javadoc and source jars will >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > not have >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > shared-impl. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > 3. shade plugin and felix maven bundle >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > plugin does not >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > play well. By >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > default bundle plugin is executed before >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > shade plugin, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > but what you >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > want is the opposite, so the information >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > on >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > MANIFEST.MF could be >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > generated taking into account all >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > classes. Note if we >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > solve 1, this >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > should not be a problem, because classes >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > inside shared >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > are myfaces >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > internals (remember why spi interfaces >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > are on impl >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > package and not in >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > shared). >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > I'll keep an eye on the resulting work. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > regards, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > Leonardo Uribe >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > 2011/7/7 Gerhard Petracek >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > <gerhard.petra...@gmail.com>: >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> hi jakob, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> great - thx! >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> regards, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> gerhard >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> http://www.irian.at >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> Your JSF powerhouse - >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> JSF Consulting, Development and >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> Courses in English and German >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> Professional Support for Apache >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > MyFaces >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> 2011/7/7 Jakob Korherr >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> <jakob.korh...@gmail.com> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> Hi guys, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> I committed a working draft to >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > the branch at >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > [1]. However, there are >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> some issues with the >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > javadoc-plugin (see [2]) >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > that must be fixed first >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> in order to get the expected >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > javadoc. The >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > other stuff (shading of >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> shared and impl-ee6) already >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > works as >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > expected! >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> Feel free to try it out >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > yourself. Comments and >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > suggestions are welcome! >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> Regards, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> Jakob >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> [1] >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/myfaces/core/branches/2.0.8_shade_prototype/ >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> [2] >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> https://jira.codehaus.org/browse/MJAVADOC-320 >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> 2011/7/7 Werner Punz >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> <werner.p...@gmail.com>: >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> > Excellent news ++1, the >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > shared as we have >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > it is a bad design decision I >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> > hope >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> > shade will get rid of our >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > debugging >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > issues we have with our current >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> > shared. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> > Werner >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> > Am 07.07.11 11:04, schrieb >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > Jakob >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > Korherr: >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> Hi Gerhard, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> Thx for (re-)opening >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > this thread. I >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > already created a jira issue [1] >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> and a core-branch [2] >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > for >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > prototyping. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> Currently I am >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > struggling a little >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > bit with the javadoc-plugin, but >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> this stuff should be >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > fixed soon >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > (maybe even today). >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> I'll let you guys know >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > when I am done >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > with the configuration, so that >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> you can try it out >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > yourselves! >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> Regards, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> Jakob >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> [1] >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/MYFACES-3205 >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> [2] >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/myfaces/core/branches/2.0.8_shade_prototype/ >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> 2011/7/7 Gerhard >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > Petracek<gerhard.petra...@gmail.com>: >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >>> hi @ all, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >>> the goal (as we >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > discussed before) >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > is to get rid of the shared-impl >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >>> module >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >>> and move to the >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > shade-plugin for >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > maven. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >>> issues with javadoc >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > and osgi >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > bundles prevented us from doing this >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >>> step. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >>> however, with codi >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > v1 we have a >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > project(-configuration) which fixes >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >>> all >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >>> the >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >>> issues we had with >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > the >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > shade-plugin. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >>> -> imo we can >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > (and should) >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > use it also for myfaces-core. >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >>> regards, >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >>> gerhard >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> -- >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> Jakob Korherr >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> blog: http://www.jakobk.com >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> twitter: http://twitter.com/jakobkorherr >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >>> work: http://www.irian.at >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > -- >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > Jakob Korherr >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > blog: http://www.jakobk.com >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > twitter: http://twitter.com/jakobkorherr >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > work: http://www.irian.at >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >>>> >> >> >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> > -- >> >>> >>>> >> > Jakob Korherr >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> >> > blog: http://www.jakobk.com >> >>> >>>> >> > twitter: http://twitter.com/jakobkorherr >> >>> >>>> >> > work: http://www.irian.at >> >>> >>>> >> > >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>>> > >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> -- >> >>> >> Jakob Korherr >> >>> >> >> >>> >> blog: http://www.jakobk.com >> >>> >> twitter: http://twitter.com/jakobkorherr >> >>> >> work: http://www.irian.at >> >>> >> >> >>> > >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- Jakob Korherr blog: http://www.jakobk.com twitter: http://twitter.com/jakobkorherr work: http://www.irian.at
