On 12/3/20 1:34 PM, Jan Lahoda wrote:
Just a few mostly random comments.
On Thu, Dec 3, 2020 at 10:27 AM Christian Lenz <christian.l...@doksafe.de>
wrote:
Hey all,
To all the LSP devs here and to the devs of the VSNetBeans plugin for VS
Code, how will NetBeans get a benefit from the VS Code extension and the
work of the LSP Client or implementation? Or is it just to give some stuff
to another IDE as a support?
There are two (or, rather, three) things:
-LSP Client is (informally) the UI editor. I.e. the NetBeans GUI. The
benefit from that is IMO fairly obvious: we can have a support for a
language for which a suitable LSP server exists. Like TypeScript.
-a Java LSP Server is something that can plug into other editors (or back
into NetBeans!) and provide a NetBeans based code completion and other
features. It actually means more NetBeans users, I think. And also some
changes that have roots in the Java LSP Server will hopefully improve the
general Java editor, or maybe even some more general parts of the IDE.
-an VS Code extension that brings the server to VS Code - basically the
same effect as the previous point.
Well even I would not support the VS Code movement, mainly of personal
feelings, and how I see the world, but I think I'm professional enough
to not to block these efforts. As Jan mentioned it also gives something
back. So let's try to see the positive side of this.
What is the purpose of extending VS Code with NetBeans stuff instead of
making NetBeans better or maybe more feature rich to be comparable to other
IDEs/Editors? IMHO it is just trying to catch people to come to Netbeans
for using Java, which again NetBeans is not only Java anymore for years.
There are no innovations from NetBeans for years. Nothing new under
Oracle, nothing innovative under Apache where we can say: „Yes this is
coming from NetBeans“ and not: „Yes VS Code or IntelliJ can do this and
after years, NetBeans now also can handle this“.
Well without funded developers, it is hard to say that here we have a
vision to implement the next big thing in the IDE World. Till then it is
a hobby project, I think for many of us. I use NetBeans as a file
explorer and a simple text editor. I miss doing programming, so I code
NetBeans using NetBeans in my free time to keep my life more balanced. I
fix whatever I find needs fixing. I implement features whatever I find
interesting and if there are some feedback from users I try to take that
on account as well.
I'd do it full time, if that would put bread on the table of my family,
but I do not see that'd happen soon.
Back in the days, I have a .NET Background and after using VS and
switching to a Web context (Angular.js, Angular, TypeScript, Vue, etc.) I
was searching for an IDE where also jQuery was working out of the box. So
you know when jQuery had his time, long long time ago. I found eclipse, but
eclipse was soooooo buggy right from the beginning. There was a jquery
Plugin that I tried and it crashed the whole IDE from a fresh Installation,
after installing the jQuery plugin. Exceptions everywhere. So then I asked
a colleague whether he knows a better IDE for that and he recommended me
NetBeans (It was somewhen in 2011). And I loved NetBeans. It was so stable,
the UX was good, the UI was okish, but back in the days, I didn’t expect
that much as from today on. So I saw HTML, JS etc and the plans to add Git
and HTML5 and JS again, because it was removed earlier etc. So I researched
a lot About NetBeans and the features and also I didn’t know anything About
IntelliJ or PHPStorm or whatever, until someone told me about it in 2013. I
figured out some features that NetBeans also can handle but the list gets
longer and longer what NetBeans couldn’t handle.
Then the move to Apache. It was like any other product from Oracle: We
don’t get any money out of it, so give it to the community. It went okish
at the beginning but I think it doesn’t get that nice as expected. Yes I
know that I’m also Apache and everyone of you/us are Apache and also we are
just users and need features that we don’t need to develop by our own. Or
we Need a specific plan. I think we don’t have one. It is just that there
is a team in india, working for Oracle trying to make NetBeans just
compatible for the next JDK. Really? This is it? Why not letting more
people work for Oracle there and make better plans etc.
Also my list of stuff, that I want to contribute is so Long and 90% of my
stuff I didn’t get any help. Maybe I tried it in a different way via slack
and not via Mailing list. Sry that I want to use Tools that are modern and
better to use nowadays than old mailing lists. I also sent mails directly
to the developers. I just got a Little: try this and that. It is not
working, after 2 or 3 mails no commitment anymore. So I’m really tired of
that. I have so many ideas and so much energy to help and it gets lost of
thousends of discussions about do we really need this feature? It is to
difficult to maintain. Is there a Need for that? Well, yes. Most of the
features that I asked or others are coming from other IDEs. And this is
working for years. If
Sorry, but I recall only a handful of cases where someone proposed a new
feature (or alike), and it was lost in thousands of discussions, or denied.
By "proposed a new feature" I mean a Pull Request or something equivalent.
Do you have pointers to particular proposals that got lost due to
discussions?
There have surely been discussions that it would be nice to do or have
something, but noone did that (i.e. didn't propose a patch, PR, or
something similar). That is unfortunate - but, in the end, that means
probably noone cared about the feature strongly enough to actually work on
it?
Jan
Totally agree. Though it is important, no matter how long we are
discussing features, improvements, at the end of the day if there is no
PR, it does not count. Even something small can make a difference. Would
we have FlatLAF, if somebody has not filed an obviously bad looking
trial PR into the repo? Probably not.
Also if someone has a good business plan, how to make money on Open
Source Apache NetBeans Development, please send me a mail!
it is to difficult, well then we need to change the core Code.
The only thing why I’m still not switching to IntelliJ is just my personal
attitude that I don’t want to and that I want to make NetBeans great again
but IMHO as a one man show, it is not possible for me. Also I’m just using
NetBeans to create plugins for NetBeans, for Nothing else. I need to use VS
Code because of the stuff that is making my work more productive.
Cheers and stay healthy
Chris
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