Still support moving forward to JDK 11 but also appreciate backward compatibility with JDK 8.
Is there a catalog of Netbeans platform based products to show which may or may not be impacted by this one way or another? Is it worth having a compatibility matrix to show what versions of NB and their compatible build/runtime/development (nb-javac) requirements? My concern was always in cases when changes (not so much new features) in the JDK API used by NB modules start getting removed from the JDK. This was my concern at the time I raised https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/NETBEANS-5349 Assuming in the above, need to start monitoring the build logs for deprecation warnings to prepare for such removal rd. For another topic but should discussion also be had on process for what to do when new JDK API / functionality usage is introduced? Assume in that case it would have to follow a similar process as being discussed. Maybe can identify in the release plan up front that as of future NB version x, Introduction of JDK is allowed to be used. Eric Bresie ebre...@gmail.com (mailto:ebre...@gmail.com) > On April 12, 2023 at 10:46:19 AM CDT, Michael Bien <mbie...@gmail.com > (mailto:mbie...@gmail.com)> wrote: > right. That is why JDK 11 as intermediate step can be important for some > projects. NB should have some releases on JDK 11 to make migration > easier. Nobody wants to solve too many problems at once. > > -mbien > > On 12.04.23 17:39 (x-apple-data-detectors://4), Peter Blemel wrote: > > My only concern with dropping JDK 11 is that JDK 17 made certain policy > > warnings into fatal errors, which stops my platform apps from running. > > Granted, this is a matter of me tracking down all of the issues that JDK 17 > > forbids and fixing them one way or another, but JDK 11 is used to work > > around that problem by myself and others. > > > > Peter > > ________________________________ > > From: Mark Struberg <strub...@yahoo.de.INVALID > > (mailto:strub...@yahoo.de.INVALID)> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2023 2:15 AM > > To: dev@netbeans.apache.org (mailto:dev@netbeans.apache.org) > > <dev@netbeans.apache.org (mailto:dev@netbeans.apache.org)> > > Subject: Re: [Lazy Consensus] Minimum JDK build and run policy (dropping > > JDK 8) > > > > Tbh, I'd rather stick with Java8 for now and then move to Java 17 at some > > point in time. > > > > Java11 is not as much used in the industry, it was kind of totally ignored > > by some companies and bigger projects. It also imo doesn't bring that much > > of a benefit for the code base. Plus the eco system is rather slowly > > moving. There are still too many Java 8 projects actively being used and > > maintained in the industry. And we still have Android as was mentioned. > > > > There will be the time to move away from Java8, but right now it might be a > > tad too early imo. > > > > So I'm rather > > -0.5 > > > > LieGrue, > > strub > > > > > > > > > Am 03.04.2023 um 18:10 schrieb Michael Bien <mbie...@gmail.com > > > (mailto:mbie...@gmail.com)>: > > > > > > +1 from my side! > > > > > > very well thought out proposal in my opinion. > > > > > > The LTS-1 model is also easy to communicate and to understand which has > > > some benefits in itself. > > > > > > Further, the option to branch a NetBeans LTS release if there is such > > > demand should cover all eventualities. I agree that we > > > should be open to that option, assuming there is enough interest and > > > branch maintainers can be found. > > > > > > best regards, > > > michael > > > > > > > > > On 03.04.23 11:38, Neil C Smith wrote: > > > > As mentioned elsewhere, I'm kicking off a process to bring this issue > > > > to a decision. For various reasons, having a decision before we > > > > branch off NB18 is desirable. I've drawn up a draft proposal (below) > > > > that tries to encompass most of what has been expressed, and hopefully > > > > achieves that - thanks to those who have already given feedback in its > > > > iteration. > > > > > > > > This thread will be active for 7 days. Expressions of support and > > > > disagreement welcomed. In particular, if you -1 please offer an > > > > alternative to all or part of this proposal that you're able to help > > > > implement. We should try and reach a consensus position that removes > > > > any block. If after the 7 days we cannot do this, then we move to a > > > > vote on this with any agreed amendments. > > > > > > > > See also the page at > > > > https://community.apache.org/committers/consensusBuilding.html > > > > > > > > Thanks, Neil > > > > > > > > ==================================================================== > > > > > > > > # Proposed policy > > > > > > > > * Apache NetBeans 18 will be the last release to support running the > > > > platform on JDK 8. > > > > > > > > * From Apache NetBeans 19, the minimum JDK required to build and run > > > > the IDE or platform will be JDK 11. > > > > > > > > * Future releases will take an "LTS-1" strategy for building and > > > > running (and CI testing) of the IDE and platform. Three JDKs will be > > > > supported at any one time - the current JDK, plus the previous two LTS > > > > releases. eg. NetBeans 20 and 21 (Nov 2023 / Feb 2024) will support > > > > JDK 11, 17 and 21. NetBeans 22 (May 2024) will support JDK 17, 21 and > > > > 22. > > > > > > > > ## Background > > > > > > > > The Apache NetBeans IDE has officially required JDK 11 to build and > > > > run since NetBeans 13 in March 2022. The platform (and unofficially > > > > the IDE) have continued to support running on JDK 8 - all modules > > > > requiring a higher JDK must currently be optional. Various tests have > > > > continued on JDK 8. > > > > > > > > This situation is causing issues as workarounds must be found for > > > > currently non-optional features that have dependencies or other > > > > requirements for running on a higher JDK (eg. Maven indexing / Lucene > > > > [1]). It's causing delays, complications and missed testing time in > > > > integration of new features (eg. problems merging support for EE 10 > > > > [2]). Supporting an increasing range of JDKs is causing increasing > > > > workload, both for people and CI. Meeting the challenges of deprecated > > > > (for removal) features in the JDK is also complicated by the > > > > additional JDK requirements. > > > > > > > > ## Notes > > > > > > > > * Apache NetBeans users will continue to be recommended to use the > > > > current or latest LTS JDK to run the IDE. The IDE will continue to > > > > support users developing projects for/with JDK 8, for as long as > > > > nb-javac and other dependencies allow. > > > > > > > > * This proposal specifically doesn't address when the default bytecode > > > > level across the codebase is increased. This can happen when required, > > > > but non-optional modules would be free to adopt the minimum JDK as > > > > they need to. > > > > > > > > * Optional modules may continue to require a runtime JDK higher than > > > > the minimum. Should it become necessary, build time optional modules > > > > might be considered - eg. a build on the minimum JDK may exclude > > > > modules that will not run on that JDK at runtime. > > > > > > > > * Some modules that are of independent use (eg. lookup, utilities, > > > > etc.) might be nominated and advertised to continue JDK 8 support for > > > > the time being. This is not expected to cover the runtime container as > > > > a whole - > > > > https://netbeans.apache.org/tutorials/nbm-runtime-container.html > > > > > > > > * Once NetBeans 19 is released, the NetBeans 18 release branch could > > > > be used to backport and release JDK 8 supporting fixes, subject to any > > > > PMC members wanting to manage those releases. > > > > > > > > * The term "platform" is used in reference to the whole framework of > > > > modules that we release (eg. via Maven), not just the platform > > > > cluster. > > > > > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4999 > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/netbeans/pull/4692 > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > > > > (mailto:dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org) > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org > > > > (mailto:dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org) > > > > > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > > > (mailto:dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org) > > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org > > > (mailto:dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org) > > > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > > (mailto:dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org) > > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org > > (mailto:dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org) > > > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org > (mailto:dev-unsubscr...@netbeans.apache.org) > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org > (mailto:dev-h...@netbeans.apache.org) > > For further information about the NetBeans mailing lists, visit: > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/NETBEANS/Mailing+lists > > >
