On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 9:26 AM, Jaroslav Tulach <jaroslav.tul...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > I was looking at an example project using Vaadin running inside Electron > recently. Have you tried this approach with HTML/Java? > > ...and trying Electron samples! C'mon do you have recent version of > NetBeans 9.0? Then just select "New Project", "JavaFX", "Java HTML5 > Application" click through the wizard and choose Run/Debug on the generated > project! How much did it take? 30s of activity[1]? > Well, you must admit that that is pretty well hidden. You're saying the HTML/Java (or is it not HTML4J) sample is hidden inside the JavaFX category and is named "Java HTML5 Application". I think this is the key problem -- how well hidden this technology is. To be honest, it took me many years to understand what the NetBeans Lookup API was for. Eventually I understood it as a generic mechanism for decoupling, which can be used in several different ways -- e.g., to provide a global context and for pub/sub communication. The problem/challenge with HTML4J is very similar -- it is a generic mechanism and its usages take a while to understand. To help with this, you can make really crystal clear what it is -- and the info in the README here https://github.com/apache/incubator-netbeans-html4j is good, but probably best would be a library of very basic samples, i.e., the repo needs a samples folder. Also, what would a transition from NetBeans IDE to HTML/Java API look like -- OK, sure, we can make TopComponents that contains HTML files, via the HTML/Java API. But how far can we go with that, can you do a POC of the complete NetBeans IDE redone via HTML/Java API? You or Toni are the only ones who are able to do that and you should do that or stop talking about it as a way forward. Thanks, Gj > > > I keep trying to find some time to experiment with Apache HTML/Java and > wondered at the feasibility of reworking that Electron example with it? > > If you give the NetBeans 9.0 support for HTML/Java UI a try, you see (when > using for example the Visual archetype) that rewriting visually rich > Electron application like > https://github.com/electron/simple-samples/tree/master/activity-monitor > should be a piece of cake. > > I consider it patriotic to try NetBeans own solution first. Am I completely > off? > > > Demo app showing all kind of features a given system allows me to use. > Like a toolbox, which I run and say - hey that's the component I need. Is > there something like this for the HTML+JAVA api? > > The visual archetype offers canvas sample, line charts and pie charts > sample and interactive GeoBase application. Isn't that enough? Then there > is another CRUD like archetype, as well as simple MVVM sample. All of them > are just few clicks from your reach ("New Project", "JavaFX", "Java HTML5 > Application"), is that enough to get started? > > I hope it is. Guys, please, instead of drinking your morning coffee, click > though the wizard and see Apache HTML/Java API in action yourself. I'll be > thankful for comments. As confessed, I am depressed by my inability to > communicate what our HTML/Java project can do for you. It may not be 100% > perfect fit, but it is so close to what you guys need.... Shame on me for > not being able to explain that! > > Thanks. > -js > > PS: Now let's look at what Electron isn't and why HTML/Java shall be a > better choice: > > > I am sure electron is good, but my personal preference is to not use a > web ide. > > I share your feelings. However we are not talking about Web IDE. We are > talking about reusing rendering pipeline that is behind HTML. Sure, this > pipeline is used in browsers, but that doesn't mean browser == the > rendering pipeline. Browser is much more and we don't need all of that. > > > Think about ... what Electron actually *is* ... > > Electron is the rendering pipeline, plus a bunch of libraries for dealing > with the surrounding operating system, plus JavaScript specific build > system. But, when writing Java application, why would you need those > libraries? Java has pretty rich operating system API (think of java.nio, > missing in JavaScript) and there are plenty of libraries to deal with other > aspects of OS integration. Why would you need npm build system? Java has > other, well established build systems as well. Conclusion? The only thing > you'd want from Electron is the rendering pipeline. > > But then: What is the HTML/Java project goal? To be a portable abstraction > over such pipeline! I would conclude that you don't want to look at > Electron to begin with! Again, I am ashamed of not being able to get my > message thru... > > > > Funfact: Without JavaFX you don't have a HTML5 renderer > > The truth is that we already have our existing Swing/JavaFX applications > and if we want to move towards HTML, we need an incremental way to migrate, > rather than big bang rewrite of everything. That is not at all what > Electron can give you! On the other hand that is something HTML/Java API > shines at. Because of using the JavaFX renderer (behind the scene), we can > easily mix the Swing and HTML UI in NetBeans IDE[2]. > > In any case having the Swing/HTML UI interop is real benefit for us. We can > mix both types of the UI right now. By having the renderer as an > implementation detail, we can replace it with better one in the future. > > PPS: Have any of the above (or below) convinced you to give HTML/Java API a > try or did I failed again to explain its benefits? > > [1] Plus few minutes of Maven plugins initial download time... > [2] Have you noticed that the wizard ("New Project", "JavaFX", "Java HTML5 > Application") is written in HTML UI? I hope the transition from the Swing > to the HTML UI was smooth enough to not be really noticeable. >
