David, I think you are right. I am pretty sure they expected things to be similar to another solution they used at www.shopify.com. I am not familiar with this solution, but I know they feel it is easy to customize. They just can't seem to understand that ecommerce is only a small piece of the solution.
On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Eric, Thanks for the feedback. I guess the question I had was a little different, namely what made them think it would be easy in the first place? It would obviously depend on what one is used to before looking at OFBiz, but I guess for some people working with it would look easy (ie coming from SAP or PeopleSoft or something, unless they only worked with a specific, small part of it) though for others it would look much more difficult (ie coming from oscommerce or even custom homegrown apps with limited scope). Okay, I don't know if those are the best examples, but hopefully the point comes through. -David On Feb 26, 2007, at 6:47 PM, Eric Crawford wrote: > David, > Those comments were actually made by the folks that we hired. I am not > sure why they feel that way, but I am certainly going to ask them. I > provided them with all the documentation I could get my hands on. I > don't see why they think it is so difficult. I am tempted at this > point to just have them provide me with the XHTML and CSS that they > created and tell them that I will modify the FTL templates. I think it > might be a little too much like "real code" for them to understand and > they should probably stick to what they are good at. > > On 2/26/07, David E. Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Hey Jonathon, it's great to get your point of view on this. >> >> That said, I'm sure you know mine is coming... ;) Don't worry I'm not >> going to attack what you said, but rather hopefully just explain some >> anomalies. >> >> >> On Feb 26, 2007, at 5:05 PM, Jonathon -- Improov wrote: >> >> > Since they're talking about the UI, then they are somewhat correct. >> > Some of the UI use Freemarker, some use form widgets. Also, there's >> > a great deal of refactoring going on at the moment for UI (by >> > Adrian Crumm). One of the problems with CSS styles usage, just to >> > name one UI problem, is that styles don't describe the content but >> > the UI attributes instead. >> >> The ecommerce UI is 100% FreeMarker, the form widget is not used >> because the customer facing stuff is meant to be customized in a very >> visual way. >> >> > In general, the UI isn't as cleanly coded as it should be. >> >> This is certainly true, and probably always will be. However, for >> many it doesn't matter so much... >> >> > But then again, large variety of coding constructs in the UI are to >> > be expected, and are less crippling than similar mess in the >> > backend modules. Developers generally place less emphasis on UI >> > than backend, since UIs are really much easier to correct in >> > comparison. >> >> The reason it is how it is now is that very few people have the >> motivation and means to improve it. Most of the web design folks >> don't really use the HTML or CSS from the base template AT ALL. >> >> A good web design company will start with a graphic design, code it >> up in HTML/CSS, and then put that HTML/CSS into the dynamic templates >> (FTL files), replacing the dummy text from the design with dynamic >> code as needed. >> >> Two points on this: >> >> 1. there is no natural feedback cycle here to improve the open source >> project >> 2. for projects that take this approach the current HTML and CSS >> practices in OFBiz are only an example and are mostly thrown away for >> real world use >> >> > I don't know about $2500 pricetag for doing up the UI alone. At >> > double that price, you could have a whole new OFBiz tailored for >> > your organization (without data migration from legacy systems). >> >> Wow, where could I get that? If I could get a sub-contractor to do >> that much for that price I'd make a killing! >> >> Please do share... >> >> > > but I think doubling the price right around the time that the >> > project should >> > > be completed is not good business. >> > >> > Oh. Your developers should've fully assessed OFBiz in the early >> > stages. This tells me one of many possible things: your contractor >> > may not be very IT-savvy, and couldn't assess OFBiz himself/herself >> > nor afford a capital outlay to hire a team to do the assessment >> > before he/she took the project from you. >> >> This is a good point. For ecommerce stuff, another important thing is >> to make sure they have web design and dynamic web site experience. >> >> > Lastly, we need to understand that OFBiz is open source. We didn't >> > pay anything to use it (unless you bought the docs!) >> >> If you buy anything from anyone that's what you're buying. You are >> NEVER buying OFBiz itself. I assume you are referring to the training >> materials from Undersun (well, now from Hotwax). If so, you are not >> buying it from "OFBiz" or any organization that owns any of OFBiz. If >> you buy the training materials you are paying to use them, not to use >> OFBiz, in any way imaginable. >> >> > I know, the initial knee-jerk reaction is to ask: "Why'd they >> > represent it as thus?". Call it bad or inaccurate or back-firing >> > marketing if you want, but OFBiz is a solid platform to work with, >> > and it's free. >> >> This is a good point too Jonathon. It does make me wonder though what >> Eric saw that represented things to be different than they are. Eric, >> perhaps you could comment on that? Was it something on an OFBiz site >> or in OFBiz documentation? >> >> -David >> >> >> >>
