For the life of me, I cannot understand you point Sam. Besides throwing
some swear words that are probably intended to solicit some emotional
response it's not clear at all what you're referring to.
Is the 'colossal bit of fuckery' the way ASF works or the way the openaz
project evolved? If you're insulting your way through life I really pity
you.
That aside, David, I think you're assessment is close enough to reality.
The ASF gives ample time to all projects and podlings in particular to
grow an active, vibrant and diverse community. It's ASF's belief that
strong communities build great projects. For now the only thing that was
expected was a report. The community, unfortunately, was not able to
produce that. The question is what it the best and more productive way
forward. John suggested retirement, again. I personally would +1 that as
I don't see sufficient momentum in the project.
Now one suggestion for you. You mention the 3 categories of projects
suitable for the ASF and I believe you imply that OpenAz doesn't fit in
any of them. I believed OpenAz fits in the 3rd category *before* the
incubation proposal. I don't know if that was true or not, but if it was
the tightly-knit team disintegrated fast. Now you mention that your
preference is on the Kanban side of agile. All good. In my experience
that cannot continue forever. The project either gets traction, adoption
and the community grows (and that takes a lot of non coding effort, like
documentation, presentations online and at various events, hand-holding
early adopters; all not the most rewarding activities for a coder) or
the community doesn't grow and coders get frustrated, feel like nobody
understands their efforts and move to other interesting things. The ASF
does not have a magic wand that makes any project successful, but we're
happy to share our experience knowledge and some time to help out. Just
something to think about.
If you feel the ASF is not for you, everybody respects that. I would
mention though that if you really care about the openaz project and hope
it will survive (and see enough value to spend your time on it) nobody
prevents from forking it and take it in whatever direction you want.
We also wish you the best!
Hadrian
On 07/10/2016 01:48 PM, Sam Barrett wrote:
What a colossal bit of fuckery.
I'm SO thankful I didn't spend much time on this.
Ass-clownery 1, well-intentioned passionate developers 0.
Well played, dinosaur; well played.
On Jul 10, 2016 11:15 AM, "David Ash" <[email protected]> wrote:
I think the retirement talks should resume.
What little steam I had three months ago for keeping it alive is gone. We
lost momentum more quickly than we gained it. I had quickly lost the two
other volunteers I brought on (within days). And I have not managed to get
any additional individuals interested. Without significantly more people,
it's not viable. I also don't think I ever got the commit status I had
applied for (or at least I never got a reply to my question regarding that
status). But I also never performed any significant work that went
uncommitted, so I'd like to avoid that being an excuse for my own
shortcomings. I feel like losing momentum and having an exceptionally busy
schedule (even for me) was more to blame there -- I spent two weeks in
Japan, and have been working 16-hour days finishing a project that I will
be demonstrating at an MIT symposium in the near future. Those are great
things for me personally, but have not been good for my involvement in
OpenAz.
Further, it has become apparent that Apache is not the right kind of
organization for me or this project. It seems to be a process-heavy,
patience-driven, slow-and-steady wins the race kind of approach geared
toward maximizing small amounts of work by large numbers of people across
the globe. Although I recognize the value of that approach, I feel like it
is geared more toward developing software that is either 1) In high demand
(and will thus have numerous volunteers); 2) Already quite mature (ready
for its first release on the first day of incubation); or 3) Has a small,
tightly-knit team largely working outside the Apache process but following
just enough of the rules to stay alive until the popularity catches on or
it has become mature enough for natural survival.
My preferred approach is on the Kanban side of Agile: process-light,
informal, momentum-driven development with minimal oversight, release early
and often, with tight feedback loops everywhere, and real-time
communications between a very small number of highly-dedicated developers.
That's the startup methodology, and I feel like it is better geared toward
bringing new things to market. I can also understand and respect why it
might not be the best general methodology for Apache, and with their track
record I could hardly say they're "doing it wrong." But I don't think it's
for me.
I still hope the project can somehow survive, but I won't be part of it.
Good luck to everyone in their projects, present and future. I wish you
all success in your ventures.
Thanks!
David Ash
On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 9:42 AM, John D. Ament <[email protected]>
wrote:
OpenAz,
We previously had a vote to retire this podling, and this would have been
your third month reporting monthly since that. Your report is missing.
Are we now in a situation where the retirement vote should restart? I
saw
that there was little mailing list activity other than the board report.
John
