On 19 February 2014 23:54, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > On Feb 19, 2014, at 1:04 PM, jan i wrote: > > > On 19 February 2014 21:55, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> wrote: > > > >> On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 3:31 PM, jan i <j...@apache.org> wrote: > >>> On 19 February 2014 20:22, Louis Suárez-Potts <lsuarezpo...@gmail.com > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> hi, > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 19 February 2014 14:05, Donald Whytock <dwhyt...@apache.org> > wrote: > >>>>> On Tue, Feb 18, 2014 at 12:34 PM, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> > >> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >> http://www.italovignoli.org/2014/02/language-support-of-office-suites/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Don't you love it when they come up with these false comparisons? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> If you look a little bit closer you see that they are releasing and > >>>>>> counting languages where the UI is only 15% translated. So yes, if > >>>>>> you are willing to release incomplete work then you can claim to > >>>>>> "support" more languages. But what kind of support is this? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> A specific example: Tartar (15% UI translated) > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I thought OOo had a requirement for 80% completion before releasing > a > >>>>>> translation. With AOO we made the requirement be 100%. LO releases > >>>>>> 15% complete UI translations ?! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Of course, we shouldn't judge their release criteria. That is their > >>>>>> business (and their users) not ours. But when they make false > >>>>>> comparisons in a table, comparing apples-to-oranges, then we ought > to > >>>>>> note it. It is not fair to claim lower standards are the same as > >>>>>> greater results. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Another example: They've released Hebrew support at 90% complete. > >> We > >>>>>> have Hebrew support at 96% complete, but we have not released it > yet. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Another example: Our Icelandic translation (unreleased) is 95% > >>>>>> complete. Theirs (released) is only 88%. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Another example: We have 36 languages at 100% complete UI > >>>>>> translation. LO has only 13. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Look at the data and make your own comparisons: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://translate.apache.org/projects/aoo40/ > >>>>>> > >>>>>> https://translations.documentfoundation.org/projects/libo_ui/ > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> More recently posted on the blog by the author: > >>>>> > >>>>> "italovignoli February 19, 2014 at 2:12 > >>>>> am< > >>>> > >> > http://www.italovignoli.org/2014/02/language-support-of-office-suites/#comment-6950 > >>>>> > >>>>> Although the comparison was between LibreOffice and Microsoft Office, > >> I > >>>>> have updated the table to reflect the situation at AOO provided by > >> that > >>>>> project." > >>>>> > >>>>> In all fairness, even if they're not complete, it's still an > >> impressive > >>>>> list of languages LO is claiming. > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> :-) Your language undoes their claim. This claim of theirs is not new. > >>>> When we were doing OOo, we claimed, too, >100 languages, until I tried > >>>> insisting that we really needed to clarify what language support > >>>> meant. (Something similar occurs with format support.) Further, it > >>>> does not matter much if a language is localized to, say, Klingon (as > >>>> we tried), only to have it be forgotten by tomorrow's children and > >>>> left unmaintained. It's a truth about open source that seldom goes > >>>> acknowledged, that what counts is not what you did yesterday or even > >>>> today but what others will do with all that over the stretch of > >>>> tomorrows to come. > >>>> > >>>> Let's be as ruthlessly real uras possible. Money decisions, not > >>>> marketing lard, are at stake. > >>>> > >>> > >>> before we we get too far out on theoretical claims. It is true we and > LO > >>> have different release policies and so be it. > >>> > >>> But has anyone looked at their po files, I just spent a couple of hours > >>> doing so, and reality is that they have many languages that are far > more > >>> complete that ours (see https://translations.documentfoundation.org/) > >>> > >> > >> How closely did you look? We only put languages in Pootle where a > >> volunteer has requested them. LO has 20 translations that have never > >> been edited. Some are at 0% complete. Many more that have not been > >> touched in over a year. > >> > > @rob, I think I am one of those that really knows how we handle > languages, > > no need to give me the sales talk. > > > > You are correct for our production versions, but It seems you have not > > been on pootle for a while. With genLang ALL our sdf files are converted > > and available on the test project I have made. So when I compare po files > > LO/AOO-genLang I compare all we have with all they have. > > > > > > > >> If you want apples-to-apples comparisons then you should look at the > >> ones we have in SVN: > >> > >> http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/openoffice/trunk/extras/l10n/source/ > >> > >> Both projects have their share of incomplete, neglected translations. > >> Nothing wrong with that. But comparing the one project's list of > >> active translations with another project's list of inactive ones is > >> not very fair. > >> > >>> They also have the web site templates in pootle, very elegant, > something > >> I > >>> would like us to have. > >>> > >> > >> We've been doing this in SVN, via a website template. If we had > >> MDText support for Pootle we could do more. > >> > > > > Well as I wrote earlier in another thread we do have mdtext support, > there > > are no magic in that. The english mdtext is the po key, and the text is > the > > translation. > > > > A simple script convert mdtext/po file. > > > > but the interest in having it, was at least at that time below zero. > > I would like to explore this before Apachecon and add it to my website > talk. If you would start another thread and/or point me to any wiki/cwiki > documentation. > I am not aware of any wiki/cwiki documentation. But .mdtext files are text files (I can find the definition if you like) and .po files are used to translate text (I can the definition if you like) So the script is roughly: 1) Copy .mdtext into .po with the format msgid = "<text from mdtext file>" msgstr = "" 2) upload to pootle and let translators do their magic 3) Generate language.mdtext file from translated .po msgid = "<text from mdtext file>" msgstr = "<translated text>" Generate .mdtext file with <translated text> in language directory. Generate and publish. > It would be very cool to show how we can expand the topnav and branding > into the languages. It was the vision beyond where we are now. > yeah. rgds jan I. > > Regards, > Dave > > > > > > >>> If we claim they compare oranges and apples we should not start doing > the > >>> same, at least not without having looked at the facts. > >>> > >> > >> Maybe we're not looking at the same facts? > >> > >>> So, yes maybe LO takes the statement to the limit, but that is called > >>> marketing, and in general accepted. > >>> > >> > >> Again, if you are not looking at the same facts and do not know that > >> you are not looking at the same facts then you have been deceived , > >> not just subjected to marketing. > >> > > > > Regarding po files, I honestly think I really know what both project do. > > > > rgds > > jan I. > > > > > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> -Rob > >> > >>> And yes I am still very frustrated about the fact that translators have > >> to > >>> translate the same text twice. THAT would be a good answer to the blog. > >>> > >>> rgds > >>> Jan Iversen. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> Don > >>>> > >>>> best > >>>> louis > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >>>> > >>>> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >> > >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@openoffice.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: dev-h...@openoffice.apache.org > >
