>>>I honestly think this turns into the wrong direction. >>>aOWB is not _only_ targeted for EE6 Application Servers, but mainly for the WebProfile amongst others (including SE!). We did a really good job in >>>>providing a system which came with almost no dependencies in it's core.
I understand your point by my main motivation when trying to start this project is to clean room implementation of JSR-299 in Java EE 6 and main usage is in Geronimo Application Server. >>>Other projects do also support e.g. the new JSR-303 spec but do not force the user to import a validation-api.jar. Which project? It is in the Java EE 6 space >>>By moving ALL SPI (the ones from core PLUS the ones from the plugins) into the SPI module, we lost parts of our modularity. Because the SPI >>>interfaces have dependency to EL, Validator, etc. >>>Do you see what I mean? As I said before, SPI is provided for Java EE 6 servers. Therefore I want to stick to Java EE 6 dependencies when writing code for OWB. And given dependencies EL, Validation, JSF etc. are all parts of the Java EE. OWB was not started to satisfy not Java EE 6 runtimes. I understand that you do not like Java EE 6, EJB etc. And you like Tomcat, Jetty etc. that you use in production systems in your projects. If you look at JSR299, it contains lots of stuff related with Java EE 6 runtime especially 1* Using of EJBs 2* Java EE Resource injections 3* Transactions 4* Some time ago JMS was included (I think that later version of spec. includes it) 5* Modules 6* And others Main motivation behind the JSR299 is to implement unify component modeling with supporting EJB+JSF in a Java EE environments. It is not just a dependency injection framework like Google Guice or somehow Spring etc. Therefore it is heavily depends on Java EE specification, requirements etc. >>>Do you see what I mean? I really see what you mean. My decision is to stick with Java EE 6. But this is not my project, and if community would like to go with your perspective, then this is not problem from my perspective. And also, currently OWB does not impose so much dependent libraries. It depends on libraries that JSR299 requires. Those core requirements can not be work as a plugin etc. Main motivation behind the plugins as to extend core framework with nonstandard extensions that are not required by the specification. But you want that core requirements must be implemented as a plugin because they require to use some jars (eg: validation-api, el etc.) that does not contained in Tomcat, Jetty. etc. From my perspective, this is not correct. And finally, anybody could implement JSR299 for non Java EE runtimes. Spec. allows this. But OWB implements JSR299 for running in Java EE 6 runtime. I wish you get the points that I want to say! Thanks; --Gurkan 2010/2/19 Mark Struberg <[email protected]> > Hi! > > I honestly think this turns into the wrong direction. > > aOWB is not _only_ targeted for EE6 Application Servers, but mainly for the > WebProfile amongst others (including SE!). We did a really good job in > providing a system which came with almost no dependencies in it's core. > > Our plugins more and more got moved from the the original meaning of > providing integration with a certain spec API (e.g. JPA, JMS, JSF) into a > landfill of 'similar business areas'. I think this is the wrong way and we > should aim for a much clearer separation of integrating different > (unrelated) specs. > > Other projects do also support e.g. the new JSR-303 spec but do not force > the user to import a validation-api.jar. > > It originally was a 3 layered design > > 1. layer: the core > 2. layer: the plugins for each additional spec > 3. layer: the SPI implementations to fill the plugins (and core > technologies) with actual life and adopt them to different implementations > > By moving ALL SPI (the ones from core PLUS the ones from the plugins) into > the SPI module, we lost parts of our modularity. Because the SPI interfaces > have dependency to EL, Validator, etc. > > Do you see what I mean? > > > LieGrue, > strub > > --- Gurkan Erdogdu <[email protected]> schrieb am Fr, 19.2.2010: > > > Von: Gurkan Erdogdu <[email protected]> > > Betreff: Re: resource injection capabilities got removed as a plugin? > > An: [email protected] > > Datum: Freitag, 19. Februar, 2010 13:07 Uhr > > One thing I forget that we may add > > more configuration options besides > > openwebbeans.properties. For example using system > > properties, program > > arguments , and some programmatic access etc. > > > > 2010/2/19 Gurkan Erdogdu <[email protected]> > > > > > Hi; > > > > > > Every framework has a some sorts of configuration to > > use :). OWB is > > > targeted for Java EE 6 servers that provides all > > Java EE defined > > > requirements that one of is that injecting Java EE > > resources into managed > > > beans. Therefore our SPI is provided to container > > vendors implementing Java > > > EE 6 servers that want to use our OWB core. If anyone > > wants to use OWB core > > > in its environment, he has to provide its own SPI > > implementations. > > > > > > Plugins are much more coarse grained than SPIs > > and they are totally > > > different usage then SPIs. For example, we mainly use > > plugins for > > > supporting some technologies that may not be included > > in lightweight > > > containers for example, Tomcat, Jetty etc. In other > > words,they are mainly > > > implemented for extending the OWB core. They may not > > be related with Java EE > > > Requirements or TCK etc. On the other hand, SPIs are > > required by Java > > > EE/JSR-299 specifications. Every container vendor must > > provide those > > > services. > > > > > > Currently we have three plugins > > > > > > 1* JMS Plugin --> For JMS support > > > 2* EJB PLugin --> For embedded OpenEJB in Tomcat > > support > > > 3* JSF PLugin --> JSF support on > > conversations.(Maybe this may not be a > > > plugin) > > > > > > SPIs are different from plugins. OWB core requires to > > use SPI > > > implementation to do its job but it is not dependent > > on any plugin. > > > Therefore, we provide Default Services. > > > > > > For resource injections, OWB requires to use "Resource > > Injection Service" > > > for Java EE requirements. Lastly, OWB is part of the > > Java EE 6. Please do > > > not swallow this. > > > > > > For configuration issues, as I said in the beginning > > every framework/server > > > has some own configuration files. It provides default > > configurations as > > > builtin. If user do not happy with defaults, it has to > > write its own and > > > obey the rules of the OWB. > > > > > > > > > >>>Otoh our plugin mechanism is pretty old, > > and possibly can get replaced > > > via the standard extension mechanisms? wdyt? > > > I do not support to change it. As I said, plugins are > > mainly used for > > > extending the OWB core. For example, if we wish to > > write something that is > > > not necessary to implement regarding to Java > > EE/JSR-299 we could write > > > plugin for it and anyone use it with dropping it into > > classpath. > > > > > > 2010/2/19 Mark Struberg <[email protected]> > > > > > > Hi! > > >> > > >> I know it doesn't make that much difference from a > > technical perspective, > > >> but having > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > org.apache.webbeans.spi.ResourceInjectionService=org.apache.webbeans.se.DefaultResourceInjectionService > > >> > > >> as a default means that the simple dropping your > > plugin in the classpath > > >> and all 'just works' (tm) doesn't work anymore. > > >> > > >> instead each user has to manually create an > > openwebbeans.properties file > > >> and maintain all changes we run through. > > >> > > >> Think this is not really an increase of > > user-friendlyness. > > >> > > >> Otoh our plugin mechanism is pretty old, and > > possibly can get replaced via > > >> the standard extension mechanisms? wdyt? > > >> > > >> LieGrue, > > >> strub > > >> > > >> > > __________________________________________________ > > >> Do You Yahoo!? > > >> Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über > > einen herausragenden Schutz > > >> gegen Massenmails. > > >> http://mail.yahoo.com > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Gurkan Erdogdu > > > http://gurkanerdogdu.blogspot.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Gurkan Erdogdu > > http://gurkanerdogdu.blogspot.com > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz > gegen Massenmails. > http://mail.yahoo.com > -- Gurkan Erdogdu http://gurkanerdogdu.blogspot.com
