>  - A file without any degree of creativity in either its literal elements
   or its structure is not protected by copyright law; therefore, such a
file
   does not require a license header.

I guess this is the part that's open to interpretation. In my view I don't
see how configuration files have any degree of creativity (which is the
same view that was expressed in the references I posted earlier), they
either work or they don't (i.e. if you apply any form of creativity a
configuration file then it will just fail to parse/serialize in the main
library or its completely mundane, i.e. the difference between changing a
default value of some.timeout=50ms vs some.timeout=100ms can hardly be
considered creative).

The bigger point is whether this is a battle worth fighting or spending
effort on, and I would suspect that the general answer would be no.

On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 2:16 PM Claude Warren, Jr
<[email protected]> wrote:

> On further research:
>
>
>    -
>
>    With few exceptions
>    <https://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html#faq-exceptions>, all
>    human-readable Apache-developed files that are included within a
>    distribution must include the header text
>    <https://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html#header-text>.
>    Documentation, including web site documentation distributed with the
>    release, may include the header text within some form of metadata (such
> as
>    HTML comments) or as a header or footer appearing in the visible
>    documentation.
>    - A file without any degree of creativity in either its literal elements
>    or its structure is not protected by copyright law; therefore, such a
> file
>    does not require a license header. If in doubt about the extent of the
>    file's creativity, add the license header to the file.  PMCs should use
>    their judgement, err on having a source header and contact
> legal-discuss@
>    if unsure.  It may make sense for some other files to have no license
>    header. Three examples are:
>
>
>    - Short informational text files; for example README, INSTALL files. The
>       expectation is that these files make it obvious which product they
> relate
>       to.
>       - Test data for which the addition of a source header would cause the
>       tests to fail.
>       - 'Snippet' files that are included in a larger file, when the larger
>       file would have duplicate licensing headers.
>
>
> So add headers to files that can take them and the headers should include
> the text found on https://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html
>
> Claude
>
> On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 11:41 AM PJ Fanning <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > The typesafe config library support comments and the sbt-header plugin
> > that we use to automate header checks and autocreation also has
> > built-in support for conf files.
> >
> > On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 at 12:38, Claude Warren, Jr
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > GPL is a much more restrictive license.  I think by inclusion in the
> > > package with the Apache license the configuration files are
> transitively
> > > under the Apache license, though a header would make that clear: either
> > in
> > > or out.  I don't know of any issues with the Apache license and a quick
> > > survey of the projects I work on show that Jena and Commons Collections
> > do
> > > include license statements, while Cassandra does not.
> > >
> > > Adding the license feels like a proactive defense in that it just
> > prohibits
> > > someone else from claiming copyright and prohibiting our use of it at
> > some
> > > later date.
> > >
> > > I would add the headers to the configs if the configs have a mechanism
> to
> > > add comments.  Obviously, any format that does not support comments can
> > not
> > > have a license header.
> > >
> > > Claude
> > >
> > > Claude
> > >
> > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 11:14 AM Matthew Benedict de Detrich
> > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > If someone wants to change the config in their apps (that use our
> > > > libs), they modify their application.conf files.
> > > >
> > > > It's on this point that the Apache license is not ideal, even if you
> > create
> > > > the configuration files from scratch (which not everyone does)
> > "proving"
> > > > that you did it from scratch versus copying an existing
> reference.conf
> > is
> > > > another thing which in specific circumstances can be problematic
> > (that's
> > > > exactly what
> > https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb-configuration-file-license/
> > > > is describing).
> > > >
> > > > I understand that other projects have added the Apache license to
> their
> > > > conf files (note that this is not universal), my impression is that
> > this
> > > > was done out of habit and hence them putting it there was a large
> > oversight
> > > > that was done without proper thought as to what it means. I imagine
> > it's
> > > > also a lot harder to remove the header once it's added.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 11:42 AM PJ Fanning <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I'd prefer no license to a non Apache license - by a large margin.
> > > > >
> > > > > The reference.conf files are our files. They are static files that
> we
> > > > > can choose to modify in releases.
> > > > > If someone wants to change the config in their apps (that use our
> > > > > libs), they modify their application.conf files.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 at 11:34, Matthew Benedict de Detrich
> > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also to add, I don't necessarily have a problem with adding a
> > license
> > > > to
> > > > > > the conf files but if we do so in my view Apache 2 is not the
> ideal
> > > > > license
> > > > > > for reasons stated earlier. If we want to go down this route then
> > an
> > > > > > artistic license such as CC-BY (or any of its variants) would be
> > more
> > > > > > appropriate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Feb 21, 2023 at 10:54 AM PJ Fanning <[email protected]
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Most Apache projects appear to put Apache license headers on
> > > > virtually
> > > > > > > every file in their source repositories, including:
> > > > > > > * XML, YAML, etc. files that are used for runtime configuration
> > > > > > > * Build scripts
> > > > > > > * Shell scripts
> > > > > > > * markdown files
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I have seen no evidence that HOCON conf files need to be
> treated
> > as
> > > > an
> > > > > > > exception, The Typesafe config lib seems to handle comments
> fine.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If the general consensus is to leave the headers off, then
> > that's ok.
> > > > > > > Until the Incubator PMC members have a look, we will not really
> > know
> > > > > > > one way or the other. The Apache RAT check will list these conf
> > files
> > > > > > > as not having headers and this could lead to -1s on our
> releases.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, 21 Feb 2023 at 10:12, Matthew Benedict de Detrich
> > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > DISCLAIMER: IANAL
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Recently some PR's/discussion has opened up on github
> regarding
> > > > > whether
> > > > > > > we
> > > > > > > > should be putting Apache Headers on configuration files (i.e.
> > > > > > > > reference.conf files). As some people already know, we had to
> > > > > undergo a
> > > > > > > > process to add the headers to source files but in my view
> > putting
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > Apache header on configuration files is at best completely
> > > > > unnecessary
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > in some cases can be harmful. For those not that familiar
> with
> > > > > typesafe
> > > > > > > > reference.conf files, you can treat them the exact same way
> as
> > Java
> > > > > > > > .properties files.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My reasoning is that configuration files are treated
> completely
> > > > > > > > separately compared to source files, in this sense they are
> > much
> > > > more
> > > > > > > akin
> > > > > > > > to documentation rather than source of a project. The
> > > > > > > > protections/stipulations provided by the Apache license
> > definitely
> > > > > makes
> > > > > > > > sense for source contents, but they can be overly
> > > > > excessive/restrictive
> > > > > > > > when placed on a conf file and one example where this can
> cause
> > > > > problems
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > cases like
> > > > > https://mariadb.com/kb/en/mariadb-configuration-file-license/
> > > > > > > .
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > In summary the content in configuration files have the
> > expectation
> > > > > to be
> > > > > > > > copied and worked on (i.e. copying the base configuration
> file
> > and
> > > > > > > changing
> > > > > > > > the default values is typical for users) and there shouldn't
> > be any
> > > > > > > > restrictions on this. Furthermore this content is not
> > expressive
> > > > > enough
> > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > be considered of value when it comes to things like copyright
> > (I
> > > > > believe
> > > > > > > > this is one of the major reasons why there is no Lightbend
> > > > copyright
> > > > > > > header
> > > > > > > > for conf files). If the Lightbend header happened to already
> > exist
> > > > > in the
> > > > > > > > configuration files there would be sense in biting the bullet
> > but
> > > > > since
> > > > > > > > this is not the case to me I see it as preferable if we just
> > leave
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > conf
> > > > > > > > files.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thoughts?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Matthew de Detrich
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH*
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *m:* +491603708037
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *w:* aiven.io *e:* [email protected]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Matthew de Detrich
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *m:* +491603708037
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *w:* aiven.io *e:* [email protected]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Matthew de Detrich
> > > >
> > > > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH*
> > > >
> > > > Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin
> > > >
> > > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B
> > > >
> > > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen
> > > >
> > > > *m:* +491603708037
> > > >
> > > > *w:* aiven.io *e:* [email protected]
> > > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
>


-- 

Matthew de Detrich

*Aiven Deutschland GmbH*

Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin

Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B

Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen

*m:* +491603708037

*w:* aiven.io *e:* [email protected]

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