Also in case others aren't aware, I made a draft PR on Parboiled2 (which is a direct dependency of pekko-http) against Scala 3.3-RC4 to see if there are any potential issues. You can see it here https://github.com/sirthias/parboiled2/pull/444.
On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 7:30 PM Matthew Benedict de Detrich < [email protected]> wrote: > On another note, Scala 3.3-RC4 just came out and assuming there are no > problems then a full release will be made roughly end of April (see > https://contributors.scala-lang.org/t/3-3-0-release-thread/6079/5) > > On Thu, Apr 20, 2023 at 5:15 PM kerr <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Akka just bump to 3.2.2 >> >> 何品 >> >> >> Jean-Luc Deprez <[email protected]> 于2023年4月19日周三 16:00写道： >> >> > Those craving stability won't judge you for jumping to an LTS. Those on >> > Scala 3 already are not those craving stability, hence would typically >> not >> > worry too much about having to jump to 3.3. >> > >> > So I think you get away with that. >> > >> > On Tue, Mar 28, 2023 at 9:35 AM Claude Warren, Jr >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > > My suggestion is go with the LTS version unless there is a conflict >> with >> > a >> > > dependency. >> > > >> > > On Mon, Mar 27, 2023 at 3:58 PM Matthew Benedict de Detrich >> > > <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> > > > As we are finding out from the conversation in >> > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-pekko/pull/273 (A PR that >> involves >> > > > updating Jackson version due to CVE's/other complications which >> forces >> > an >> > > > update to Scala 3.2 due to Jackson 2.14.2 only supporting Scala >> 3.1) a >> > > lot >> > > > of the source/compiler warnings are from Scala 3.2, not Scala 3.3. >> > > > >> > > > If the PR lands, this means that the argument for avoiding updating >> to >> > > > Scala 3.3 due to syntax/source incompatibilities is weaker since we >> are >> > > > already forced to do the most of the same changes anyways. >> Furthermore >> > as >> > > > can be seen from Jackson 2.14.2 not supporting older Scala 3 >> versions >> > it >> > > > appears that some of the critical parts of the ecosystem are >> updating >> > > Scala >> > > > 3 as it releases new minor versions rather than leaving it at older >> > > > versions. >> > > > >> > > > On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 4:15 PM Matthew Benedict de Detrich < >> > > > [email protected]> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > > > Good point also about 2.12 compatibility. It will become harder >> to >> > > > > support multiple Scala version the more the allowed syntax >> differs. >> > > > > >> > > > > The reason why I did the PR was to actually confirm/deny whether >> this >> > > is >> > > > > an issue, as shown in the PR its a non issue (assuming that Scala >> 3.3 >> > > > > doesn't add anything more between RC3 and release which is quite >> > > likely) >> > > > > >> > > > > On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 3:52 PM Johannes Rudolph < >> > > > > [email protected]> wrote: >> > > > > >> > > > >> Just for the record, I also said not to do anything right now >> about >> > it >> > > > :) >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Other than that, I mostly agree with Nicolas. Unless we are >> forced >> > to >> > > > >> update Scala 3 we should *not* do it right now. The situation >> might >> > > > >> change in 6-12 months with widespread adoption to Scala 3.3 we >> might >> > > > >> just do it (because everyone does by then and updates will only >> be >> > > > >> available for 3.3 at some point in the future). >> > > > >> >> > > > >> Good point also about 2.12 compatibility. It will become harder >> to >> > > > >> support multiple Scala version the more the allowed syntax >> differs. >> > > > >> >> > > > >> On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 1:31 PM Matthew Benedict de Detrich >> > > > >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > One precondition to upgrade to newer versions of Scala 3 >> would >> > be >> > > > >> dropping >> > > > >> > support for Scala 2.12. >> > > > >> > Scala 2.13 at least has support for some of the Scala 3 Syntax >> > with >> > > > >> > compiler flags to cross compile. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Are you talking about support on artifact level or on syntax >> > level? >> > > > >> Afaik >> > > > >> > there isn't any plan for Scala 3.3 to drop support for Scala >> 2.13 >> > > > >> artifacts >> > > > >> > (artifacts are completely separated from supported syntax). If >> we >> > > are >> > > > >> > talking about a hypothetical Scala 3 user of Pekko, the Scala3 >> > > syntax >> > > > >> that >> > > > >> > Pekko happens to use will be irrelevant here. In other words, >> if a >> > > > user >> > > > >> is >> > > > >> > upgrading from Scala 3.1/Scala 3.2 to Scala 3.3 then they will >> > have >> > > to >> > > > >> > upgrade the syntax of the source code irrespective of Pekko. >> If we >> > > are >> > > > >> > talking about difficulties of cross compiling for Scala >> 3/Scala 2 >> > > > within >> > > > >> > Pekko itself I think we would have to see if there are any >> syntax >> > > > >> breaking >> > > > >> > changes in this regard (I didn't see any for Scala 3.3 but I >> may >> > > have >> > > > >> > missed something). Since an RC for Scala 3.3 is out we can >> pretty >> > > > easily >> > > > >> > figure out if this is going to be a problem right now. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > I think what Johannes said here is important, which is that >> > > currently >> > > > >> there >> > > > >> > aren't any users of Pekko Scala 3 and because of this we really >> > > > >> shouldn't >> > > > >> > overthink it. And even then, if we do release Pekko with Scala >> 3.3 >> > > and >> > > > >> some >> > > > >> > hypothetical user is going to have problems because they >> haven't >> > > > >> upgrade to >> > > > >> > Scala 3.3 yet, they can easily use the Pekko Scala 2.13 >> artifact >> > and >> > > > >> since >> > > > >> > we are not using any bespoke Scala 3 features in Pekko >> currently >> > on >> > > a >> > > > >> > source level the user is actually not going to notice any >> > > difference. >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 1:18 PM Nicolas Vollmar < >> > [email protected] >> > > > >> > > > >> wrote: >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > > IMHO we should use the lowest supported version of Scala 3 to >> > not >> > > > >> force >> > > > >> > > user to upgrade to newer versions. >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Scala 3 continues to deprecate old syntax. Some of it will >> > produce >> > > > >> warnings >> > > > >> > > in Scala 3.2 and may be removed in 3.3 or later. >> > > > >> > > For example >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > >> > >> https://dotty.epfl.ch/docs/reference/dropped-features/package-objects.html >> > > > >> > > or >> > > > https://dotty.epfl.ch/docs/reference/changed-features/imports.html >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > One precondition to upgrade to newer versions of Scala 3 >> would >> > be >> > > > >> dropping >> > > > >> > > support for Scala 2.12. >> > > > >> > > Scala 2.13 at least has support for some of the Scala 3 >> Syntax >> > > with >> > > > >> > > compiler flags to cross compile. >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > On Fri, 24 Mar 2023 at 10:26, Matthew Benedict de Detrich >> > > > >> > > <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > So some discussions on github are popping up regarding >> which >> > > > Scala 3 >> > > > >> > > > version we should pick so I think it's time to discuss this >> > > > >> formally on >> > > > >> > > the >> > > > >> > > > mailing list. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > As a precursor one thing people need to understand is that >> the >> > > > >> Scala 3 >> > > > >> > > > release cycle has changed, quoting from >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> >> > > > >> > > >> > >> https://github.com/apache/incubator-pekko/issues/6#issuecomment-1302701657 >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > Scala 2 used epoch.major.minor version convention. Scala >> 3 >> > has >> > > > >> > > > major.minor.patch. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > So there is no 3.0/3.1/3.2/etc cross-compilation - the >> > > > assumption >> > > > >> is >> > > > >> > > > that: >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > * you can compile against the same minor version with >> > > backward- >> > > > >> and >> > > > >> > > > forward-compatibility: 3.1.3 dependency against 3.1.0 code, >> > > 3.0.0 >> > > > >> > > > dependency against 3.0.1 code, etc >> > > > >> > > > > * within the same major version you always have >> > > > >> backward-compatibility: >> > > > >> > > > 3.1.3 dependency can be used in 3.1.3 project, but also >> 3.2.0 >> > > > >> project and >> > > > >> > > > in future against 3.3.0 project >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > This means that if we pick a Scala version, we are >> essentially >> > > > >> forcing >> > > > >> > > the >> > > > >> > > > potential Scala 3 users of Pekko to bump their Scala 3 >> version >> > > to >> > > > >> the >> > > > >> > > minor >> > > > >> > > > that we decide on. On surface value this means that we >> should >> > > pick >> > > > >> the >> > > > >> > > > lowest Scala 3 minor version that we can support however >> there >> > > is >> > > > >> the >> > > > >> > > fact >> > > > >> > > > that Scala 3.3 is going to come out soon which will be an >> LTS >> > > > >> release. >> > > > >> > > The >> > > > >> > > > LTS release means that if any bugs are found after Scala >> 3.3 >> > > for a >> > > > >> period >> > > > >> > > > of 2 years, they will be backported to Scala 3.3. The big >> > > > advantage >> > > > >> this >> > > > >> > > > brings us, is that it allows us to freely bump Scala 3.3 >> > without >> > > > >> breaking >> > > > >> > > > our users if any potential bugs are found in the future. >> If we >> > > > >> decide to >> > > > >> > > > stick with Scala 3.2 or 3.1 and some bug is found in Scala >> 3 >> > > later >> > > > >> on >> > > > >> > > that >> > > > >> > > > affects us, we will have to update to a version of Scala 3 >> > that >> > > > will >> > > > >> > > break >> > > > >> > > > binary compatibility. This facet is of even more importance >> > when >> > > > >> > > > considering our 1.0.x release branches, which are designed >> to >> > > > never >> > > > >> break >> > > > >> > > > binary/backwards compatibility, i.e. if we do 1.0.x >> releases >> > > with >> > > > >> Scala >> > > > >> > > > 3.1/3.2 and some critical bug/CVE comes out later we could >> > > > >> potentially be >> > > > >> > > > forced to update the minor version which would break this >> > > > >> > > binary/backwards >> > > > >> > > > compatibility, this wouldn't be the case with Scala 3.3 >> (for a >> > > > >> certain >> > > > >> > > > period of time). >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Of course the counter argument to using Scala 3.3 is that >> it >> > > would >> > > > >> force >> > > > >> > > > all potential Pekko users (and the transitive set of Scala >> 3 >> > > > >> libraries >> > > > >> > > for >> > > > >> > > > that Pekko user) to also use/support Scala 3.3. >> Unfortunately >> > > its >> > > > >> not >> > > > >> > > > possible to get download stats from Sonatype for artifacts >> you >> > > > don't >> > > > >> > > > maintain, but I wouldn't say its a controversial statement >> > that >> > > > the >> > > > >> > > amount >> > > > >> > > > of people that use Akka long with Scala 3 would be a tiny >> > > minority >> > > > >> (this >> > > > >> > > is >> > > > >> > > > also regarding other factors, i.e. the typical demographic >> of >> > > Akka >> > > > >> > > users). >> > > > >> > > > Ontop of this we need to take into account the delay of >> > current >> > > > Akka >> > > > >> > > users >> > > > >> > > > migrating to Pekko, in other words by the time people >> migrate >> > to >> > > > >> using >> > > > >> > > > Pekko the fact that its using Scala 3.3 LTS would likely >> be a >> > > non >> > > > >> concern >> > > > >> > > > at that point in time. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > And finally another thing to note is that even in the worst >> > case >> > > > >> > > scenario, >> > > > >> > > > nothing is stopping users from using Scala 2 artifacts from >> > > within >> > > > >> Scala >> > > > >> > > 3 >> > > > >> > > > (this is perfectly supported and has been for a while). >> Afaik >> > > the >> > > > >> current >> > > > >> > > > Scala 3 version of Akka/Pekko is not using any >> unique/bespoke >> > > > >> features of >> > > > >> > > > Scala 3, if true this would mean from a Scala 3 user >> > perspective >> > > > >> there >> > > > >> > > > really isn't going to be >> > > > >> > > > a difference in using a Scala 2 artifact vs Scala 3 >> artifact. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > For these reasons my recommendation would be, assuming that >> > the >> > > > full >> > > > >> > > > release of Scala 3.3 LTS is ready by the time we decide to >> > make >> > > a >> > > > >> release >> > > > >> > > > that we should try and target that. For details on the >> current >> > > > >> release >> > > > >> > > > schedule for Scala 3.3 LTS you can read >> > > > >> > > > >> > > https://contributors.scala-lang.org/t/3-3-0-release-thread/6079/3 >> > > > . >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Matthew de Detrich >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > *m:* +491603708037 >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > *w:* aiven.io *e:* [email protected] >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > -- >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Matthew de Detrich >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > *m:* +491603708037 >> > > > >> > >> > > > >> > *w:* aiven.io *e:* [email protected] >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> > > > >> >> > > > >> >> > > > > >> > > > > -- >> > > > > >> > > > > Matthew de Detrich >> > > > > >> > > > > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* >> > > > > >> > > > > Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin >> > > > > >> > > > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B >> > > > > >> > > > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen >> > > > > >> > > > > *m:* +491603708037 >> > > > > >> > > > > *w:* aiven.io *e:* [email protected] >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > >> > > > Matthew de Detrich >> > > > >> > > > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* >> > > > >> > > > Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin >> > > > >> > > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B >> > > > >> > > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen >> > > > >> > > > *m:* +491603708037 >> > > > >> > > > *w:* aiven.io *e:* [email protected] >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > > > -- > > Matthew de Detrich > > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* > > Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen > > *m:* +491603708037 > > *w:* aiven.io *e:* [email protected] > -- Matthew de Detrich *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen *m:* +491603708037 *w:* aiven.io *e:* [email protected]
