Sorry typo * Pekko is not a typical greenfield Incubator project and it should stop being treated as such as a default unless we are breaking some hard ASF rule.
On Sun, May 28, 2023 at 11:59 AM Matthew Benedict de Detrich < [email protected]> wrote: > > I also don't think that things should be added or removed from the > milestone without a discussion and vote. > > Agree with PJ Fanning here, while it is fair that in the normal running of > an Apache > project needing to vote in order to remove/add things from a milestone > makes sense, > if this was done in Pekko, with the amount of things we need to do it > would take years > to get the first release done. > > I get the impression that the assumption of how much work is necessary is > extremely > under-estimated. If you want to get a more accurate estimate of how much > is done, > have a look at the github contributor page on Pekko's for the most active > committers. > > > Having to require a vote to add/remove things in the current state of Pekko > as a project, a lot of contributors would get the impression that it's > adding > bureaucracy/process with no real benefit. Since the current group of > committers > is quite tight nit (we are talking about former Akka/Scala developers) > everyone > is in broad agreement of what needs to be done for a release and the more > big > ticket contentious issues (i.e. waiting for Scala 3.3 LTS, adding inliner) > are > already being discussed on the mailing list. > > And even if we did add voting for this, it would largely be pointless > because > the same few people that are part of the active contributors would just > be +1 > everything except that we would have to wait a week for any change (for the > voting to conclude). At this point some people amy bring up "well we don't > have > to wait for a week of voting, it can be lower" and then we get into > needless bike > shedding arguments wasting even more time. > > And to be clear here, I am not saying that these things can't change and > the > current state of affairs is perfectly healthy, there are definite issues > about > sustainability here but our current highest priority is to get a Pekko > release > out ASAP else we have the risk of it being DOA (dead on arrival) because a > large proportion of would-be Pekko users/community have moved on. > > So for now I would urge that rather than unless strictly necessary, we > should > refrain from adding new processes before the first release. Instead > focusing > on *how* we do things, we should focus on *what* the goals are and let the > process's form organically from the developers. > > I also have confidence that the PPMC would be more open than typical > for a project like Pekko with the context/understanding that Pekko is a > hard > fork of an existing project (Akka) and because of this it's bringing in an > already existing, non trivial sized community and its > expectations/workflow/processes. Pekko is not a typical greenfield > Incubator > project and it should stop being treated as such unless as a default unless > we are breaking some hard ASF rule. > > On Sun, May 28, 2023 at 10:42 AM Claude Warren, Jr > <[email protected]> wrote: > >> My discussion was not about how to develop or direction for each issue but >> whether each issues belongs in the milestone. There is no other place to >> discuss the milestone and what goes in it. Since there was not a lot of >> discussion on the milestone contents I felt that taking a line item vote >> would be good to surface any cases where there were issues with what >> should >> be in the milestone. >> >> I also don't think that things should be added or removed from the >> milestone without a discussion and vote. >> >> >> On Sat, May 27, 2023 at 5:58 PM PJ Fanning <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > I agree with Matthew. I believe the issues should be discussed >> > individually in the comments on the issues themselves. >> > >> > My opinion is that where there are differences in opinions in these >> > comments and that we need some mechanism to decide on which way to go, >> that >> > a Vote thread is then useful. >> > >> > We have already closed off some issues and dropped others from the >> > milestone. >> > >> > We are getting close to a release and we are discovering a lot of issues >> > with the technicalities of making the release. Getting involved in >> voting >> > on all of these issues will slow down the whole process. >> > >> > On 2023/05/24 15:40:01 Matthew Benedict de Detrich wrote: >> > > If we are talking about the milestone generally and voting then it's >> > clear >> > > that this can be discussed on the mailing list. I was referring to >> > > individual >> > > discussion of issues in a milestone which is what I also believe PJ >> > Fanning >> > > was referring to. >> > > >> > > On Wed, May 24, 2023 at 5:28 PM Claude Warren, Jr >> > > <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > >> > > > The milestone itself [1] does not have any way to discuss the >> > milestone as >> > > > a single entity. There is no place where all discussion about what >> > should >> > > > go into (or be taken out of) the milestone occurs. Each ticket in >> the >> > > > milestone has its discussion space. But the milestone itself does >> not. >> > > > Thus my desire to have discussions about what goes into or come out >> of >> > the >> > > > milestone to be held on the dev list. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-pekko/milestone/1 >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > >> > > Matthew de Detrich >> > > >> > > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* >> > > >> > > Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin >> > > >> > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B >> > > >> > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen >> > > >> > > *m:* +491603708037 >> > > >> > > *w:* aiven.io *e:* [email protected] >> > > >> > >> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] >> > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] >> > >> > >> > > > -- > > Matthew de Detrich > > *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* > > Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin > > Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B > > Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen > > *m:* +491603708037 > > *w:* aiven.io *e:* [email protected] > -- Matthew de Detrich *Aiven Deutschland GmbH* Immanuelkirchstraße 26, 10405 Berlin Amtsgericht Charlottenburg, HRB 209739 B Geschäftsführer: Oskari Saarenmaa & Hannu Valtonen *m:* +491603708037 *w:* aiven.io *e:* [email protected]
