Thanks for the sharing the details as well as what happened in the past. in 
this case, any concern with adding docker based regression test to spark 4 for 
now until we have a better solution?

@ Dmitri and Robert

Thanks,
Yong Zheng

On 2026/07/07 01:36:48 yun zou wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for laying out your reasoning. I agree with several of your goals,
> particularly that every required CI test should have a clear purpose and
> that we should avoid redundant coverage. However, I don't think the
> proposed JUnit/Gradle test is a complete replacement for the current Spark
> regression test.
> 
> First, I think the "~2m30s" point is being interpreted a bit differently
> than intended. It wasn't meant to justify keeping a heavy test simply
> because it's "only" a few minutes. Rather, it was in response to the
> characterization that the current Spark regression test is prohibitively
> expensive. The runtime is relatively modest for the coverage it provides.
> 
> Second, I think the current regression test is validating two different
> things:
> 
>    - the Polaris service behaves correctly; and
>    - the Spark client can be packaged, launched, and used successfully in a
>    realistic environment.
> 
> Those have different goals and different failure modes. For example,
> differences in storage backends or I/O implementations are important for
> the service-side tests, but they aren't really the focus of validating the
> Spark client. I'd actually favor separating those concerns into two
> different CI jobs rather than replacing the Spark client regression test
> entirely.
> 
> Regarding --packages, we added that coverage for a concrete reason. While
> our documentation primarily demonstrates using --jars, both --jars and
> --packages are well-established ways of launching Spark applications, and
> users commonly use --packages as an alternative.
> 
> Historically, we started with only the --jars regression test. We later
> added --packages support because we encountered a real regression that the
> --jars test did not catch: using --packages pulled in the transitive
> dependencies of polaris-core, which conflicted with the version of Avro
> required by Spark. That failure mode only appeared when Spark performed
> dependency resolution in the same way users do.
> 
> This is also why I'm not convinced a JUnit test is sufficient. To achieve
> equivalent coverage, we'd effectively need to mimic how Spark resolves both
> --jars and --packages. That means introducing another layer of test logic
> that we'd have to maintain, and one that necessarily depends on Spark's
> implementation. I'd rather exercise Spark's actual launcher and dependency
> resolution than maintain our own approximation of that behavior.
> 
> So I agree that we should make the responsibilities of the regression tests
> clearer, and I'm supportive of separating the service-focused and Spark
> client-focused tests. Where I disagree is that the Docker-based Spark
> regression test is merely an end-to-end duplicate. It validates packaging
> and launch behavior that has already caught at least one real regression
> and does so by exercising the same code paths our users rely on.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Yun
> 
> On Sat, Jul 4, 2026 at 4:30 PM Yong Zheng <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > I think one example provided in the above reference ticket is Russell ran
> > into some issue in the past with this thus the strong preference over
> > docker based testing. @Russell, is this something you can provide more
> > insights with?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Yong Zheng
> >
> >
> > On 2026/06/30 16:55:42 Dmitri Bourlatchkov wrote:
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > +1 to Robert's points.
> > >
> > > Testing just the "fat" client jar in CI looks sufficient to me. This jar
> > > should expose the same range of class-loading issues that may occur with
> > > the "thin" jar with dependencies resolved via Maven/Ivy.
> > >
> > > Additionally, I think Gradle-based tests are much simpler to debug and
> > > evolve than Docker-based tests.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Dmitri.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2026 at 6:25 AM Robert Stupp <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > I think the “this only takes ~2m30s” argument is a bit distracting.
> > > >
> > > > The question should not be whether one CI section is currently small
> > > > compared to other CI sections.
> > > > The question should be: what concrete failure mode does this test catch
> > > > that we cannot catch with a cheaper and more targeted test?
> > > >
> > > > GitHub runner time is still a shared ASF resource.
> > > > Even a few minutes matter when they run on many PRs, retries,
> > main/release
> > > > branches, and then get copied again for Spark 4 or future Spark
> > versions.
> > > > So I think every required PR test should have a clear purpose and a
> > clear
> > > > failure mode it protects against.
> > > >
> > > > For the Spark plugin regtest, I am still missing that concrete
> > > > justification.
> > > >
> > > > If the concern is the bundle jar, then I agree we should test that the
> > > > bundle jar loads in an isolated Spark-like runtime and can create/use
> > the
> > > > Polaris catalog.
> > > > That seems valuable, and the JUnit/Gradle test looks like a good fit
> > for
> > > > that.
> > > >
> > > > If the concern is `--packages` / Maven resolution, I am less convinced
> > this
> > > > belongs in required PR CI.
> > > > Polaris appears to direct users to the packaged Spark client artifacts,
> > > > especially the bundle jar, for example on the 1.5.0 downloads page.
> > > > Testing Maven/Ivy resolution through `publishToMavenLocal` also has
> > real
> > > > costs: it mutates the developer's global `~/.m2`, interacts badly with
> > > > project isolation, and is not great for build cacheability.
> > > >
> > > > Also, the risk of “broken generated POM metadata” seems very low.
> > > > If we really care about that, we can check the publication metadata
> > > > directly without launching a Docker/Spark workflow.
> > > >
> > > > So my concrete question is:
> > > > Has the Docker-based Spark plugin regtest caught specific regressions
> > that
> > > > the proposed isolated JUnit/Gradle test would not have caught?
> > > >
> > > > Examples would help a lot here: broken dependency metadata, a real
> > > > `spark-submit --packages` failure, a bundle/classpath issue, or some
> > > > launcher behavior that only the Docker test exposed.
> > > > Without that evidence, “it is closer to the user workflow” feels too
> > broad
> > > > to justify keeping it as a required PR gate.
> > > >
> > > > My preference would be:
> > > >
> > > > * keep required PR CI focused on targeted tests for the bundle jar and
> > > > Spark
> > > >   catalog behavior;
> > > > * avoid `publishToMavenLocal` and global `~/.m2` mutation in normal PR
> > > > tests;
> > > > * if people still want full shell/Docker coverage, run it periodically
> > or
> > > > as a
> > > >   manual workflow until we have evidence that it catches unique
> > > > regressions.
> > > >
> > > > That gives us Spark 4 coverage without making Docker-based end-to-end
> > > > testing the default answer for every Spark version.
> > > >
> > > > Robert
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2026 at 1:27 AM Yufei Gu <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Thanks for raising this, Yong! I agree that we need tests for Spark
> > 4.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with what Yun said here.
> > > > >
> > > > > To add to that, the current regression tests against MinIO/RustFS
> > cover
> > > > > both the Spark Plugin Regression Test and the top level Regression
> > Test.
> > > > > These used to be separate CI workflows(merged in PR 3625), and I
> > think we
> > > > > should keep them separate.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Spark Plugin Regression Test does not need to connect to a
> > storage
> > > > > system such as S3, MinIO, or RustFS. It primarily serves as a smoke
> > test
> > > > to
> > > > > verify the Polaris packaging and Spark deployment. I think we should
> > > > > restore the previous setup where these workflows are separated. That
> > > > would
> > > > > also reduce the overall CI duration, since they can run in parallel.
> > > > >
> > > > > [image: Screenshot 2026-06-29 at 4.15.57 PM.png]
> > > > > [image: Screenshot 2026-06-29 at 4.16.14 PM.png]
> > > > >
> > > > > Yufei
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, Jun 29, 2026 at 4:07 PM yun zou <[email protected]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hi Yong Zheng,
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Thanks for bringing this up! In short, I don't think it's worth the
> > > > effort
> > > > >> to make this conversion at the moment for the following reasons:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>    1. *It doesn't meaningfully improve CI time.* I think you
> > mentioned
> > > > >> this
> > > > >>    in the thread as well. Looking at one CI run as an example (
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > https://github.com/apache/polaris/actions/runs/24255532169/job/70826005994
> > > > >> ),
> > > > >>    the Spark Regression Test section only takes about *2m 35s*.
> > Even if
> > > > we
> > > > >>    add another Spark 4.x regression test, I don't think it would
> > > > >> significantly
> > > > >>    increase the overall CI time—probably just another 2–3 minutes.
> > The
> > > > >> Runtime
> > > > >>    Service tests are still the slowest part of the pipeline, and
> > their
> > > > >>    execution time is likely to continue growing.
> > > > >>    2. *The regression tests provide a high level of confidence in
> > > > >>    correctness.* They remain the tests that most closely resemble
> > our
> > > > >>    customers' actual environments, making them our last line of
> > defense
> > > > >>    against regressions. That gives them significant value. Rather
> > than
> > > > >>    spending effort trying to build simulations that provide similar
> > > > >> coverage,
> > > > >>    I think it's better to keep these regression tests in place since
> > > > they
> > > > >>    validate the real end-to-end behavior.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Those are my thoughts, but I'm happy to discuss further if you see
> > > > >> additional benefits that I'm missing.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Best Regards,
> > > > >> Yun
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Sun, Jun 28, 2026 at 8:47 PM Yong Zheng <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Hello,
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Follow-up to the regtest thread (
> > > > >> > https://lists.apache.org/thread/4bx31cfbcqfxzgpsddvc9kcfbn9l093y)
> > and
> > > > >> > current PR (https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/4588).
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Currently we support both Spark 3 (
> > > > >> > https://github.com/apache/polaris/tree/main/plugins/spark/v3.5)
> > and
> > > > 4 (
> > > > >> > https://github.com/apache/polaris/tree/main/plugins/spark/v4.0)
> > for
> > > > >> > Polaris spark client, however, only spark 3 has regtests. There
> > was a
> > > > >> > concern with potentially increasing CI time, however, this later
> > got
> > > > >> proved
> > > > >> > to be not the case as "moving
> > > > >> > regtests to integration tests would not necessarily save time. In
> > > > fact,
> > > > >> it
> > > > >> > could potentially increase overall CI duration, since the longest
> > > > >> running
> > > > >> > workflows are currently not the regtests".
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Before we can finalize the testing strategy for Polaris spark
> > client,
> > > > we
> > > > >> > need to decide if we want to proceed with the conversion (from
> > docker
> > > > >> based
> > > > >> > to JUnit based). The lack of regtests for spark 4 can potentially
> > > > cause
> > > > >> > regression issues later.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Also, as we are using JUnit, we can't trigger a actual
> > 'spark-shell
> > > > >> xxxx'
> > > > >> > to simulate the actual `--packages` and `--jars`.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > However, we can kind get them working by using `URLClassLoader`
> > for
> > > > >> > `--jars` and `SparkSubmitUtils.resolvedMavenCoordinates` for
> > > > >> `--packages`.
> > > > >> > The catch here is to be able to use `--packages`, we will need to
> > > > >> > `publishToMavenLocal` (which is project-isolation violation, as it
> > > > will
> > > > >> try
> > > > >> > to modify `~/.m2`). The suggest is to drop this test and only
> > handle
> > > > >> bundle
> > > > >> > jar via `URLClassLoader`.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > I am wondering how team would like to proceed as we can't leave
> > spark
> > > > 4
> > > > >> > out there without proper JUnit for a long period of time.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Thanks,
> > > > >> > Yong Zheng
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> 

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