Hi Prithvi, Dmitri,

I was OOO last week and I'm catching up with this discussion, so my
apologies for the delay.

@ Prithvi : your description of the approach is spot on and
corresponds to what I had in mind. To your questions:

> 1. Is the attribute key naming convention above acceptable?

Yes. Quarkus tends to use simple attribute keys like "tenant-id", but
I think Polaris should use namespaced attributes.

> 2. For `DefaultAuthenticator` [...] should it also add the `PrincipalEntity` 
> to `SecurityIdentity` attributes at that point [...] ?

Yes it should, and that's indeed the annoying part. The current
authenticate method signature is:

  PolarisPrincipal authenticate(PolarisCredential credentials) throws
NotAuthorizedException, ServiceFailureException;

This signature is too rigid and does not easily allow attaching a
PrincipalEntity. We'd need to change it to something like:

  SecurityIdentity authenticate(SecurityIdentity credentials) throws
AuthenticationFailedException;

This would allow the authenticator impl to:

- read all the credentials presented by the client (and not only
PolarisCredential)
- attach the PrincipalEntity to the SecurityIdentity, if it exists
- allow easy authentication of federated principals, as a future possibility

> 3. For the OPA test suite [...] should I update those tests to instead set 
> the `PrincipalEntity` attribute on `SecurityIdentity` [...] ?

Yes, that would be the right thing to do.

> 4. Should I add a helper method somewhere [...] to encapsulate the attribute 
> lookup [...] ?

I like that idea, +1.

My problem with [5032] is that I'm not sure it's going in the right
direction, given the above. There are two methods today in
PolarisPrincipal that I think should be removed:

Map<String, String> getProperties();
Optional<String> getToken();

As they could easily be replaced by injecting SecurityIdentity (also,
getToken is currently unused).

What do you think of this plan?

Thanks,
Alex

[5032]: https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/5032

On Fri, Jul 17, 2026 at 12:44 AM Prithvi S <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi JB, Dmitri,
>
> Got it, sure. Thanks for trying to reopen #4405. I updated it in
> https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/5032.
>
> Regards,
> Prithvi
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2026 at 4:42 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > Yup, I suggest to re-open with a fresh PR.
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2026 at 5:10 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Prithvi,
> > >
> > > Sorry, but GH refuses to reopen PR 4405 because its branch has been
> > > force-pushed or something like that.
> > >
> > > In the interest of making progress, let's not worry about it. Please open
> > > fresh PRs for all changes that got stuck in erroneously closed PRs and
> > > cross-reference them.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Dmitri.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2026 at 7:25 PM Prithvi S <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi Dmitri,
> > > >
> > > > Ah, okay, got it. I closed https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/5032
> > .
> > > > Can
> > > > you try to reopen https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/4405 now?
> > Thanks!
> > > > Also this access privilege is confusing. This must be a project
> > setting?
> > > > Can we have access to reopen it if it closes due to stale activity?
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > > Prithvi S
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Jul 11, 2026 at 4:30 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov <[email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Prithvi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I cannot reopen [4405] either as you apparently have another PR
> > using the
> > > > > same branch, i.e. [5032] :)
> > > > >
> > > > > Since [5032] is fresh, I suggest closing it and restoring the branch
> > to
> > > > the
> > > > > PolarisPrincipal commits. Then the PR should be possible to re-open,
> > I
> > > > > hope.
> > > > >
> > > > > [4405] https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/4405
> > > > >
> > > > > [5032] https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/5032
> > > > >
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Dmitri.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2026 at 6:54 PM Prithvi S <
> > [email protected]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Dmitri,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for checking this. That makes sense, I will change it to
> > make
> > > > > > the auth layer forward to PolarisPrincipal properties.
> > > > > > Can you help reopen the PR? I don't seem to have access to reopen.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > Prithvi S
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Fri, Jul 10, 2026 at 6:25 PM Dmitri Bourlatchkov <
> > [email protected]>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Prithvi, Alex,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Re: SecurityIdentity, it is a Quarkus class and it is certainly
> > fine
> > > > to
> > > > > > use
> > > > > > > it in infrastructure code that deals with technical
> > authentication
> > > > > > aspects
> > > > > > > (e.g. in SecurityIdentityAugmentor).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > However, I'd like to avoid depending on SecurityIdentity in
> > proper
> > > > > > Polaris
> > > > > > > code like the OPA Authorizer.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I tend to think that the authentication layer should forward
> > whatever
> > > > > > user
> > > > > > > information is necessary to PolarisPrincipal as optional
> > attributes.
> > > > > OPA
> > > > > > > and other authorizers will then have the opportunity to consider
> > > > those
> > > > > > > attributes.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This will decouple Polaris authorizers both from Quarkus-specific
> > > > code
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > from PrincipalEntity. So the authorizers should be usable with
> > any
> > > > IdP
> > > > > > > (internal or external) and not be affected by Quarkus upgrades.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > WDYT?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > Dmitri.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2026 at 5:15 AM Prithvi S <
> > > > [email protected]>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Alex,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thank you, I understand now that the decoupling in PR #2307 was
> > > > > > > intentional
> > > > > > > > and that `PolarisPrincipal` should not assume a backing
> > > > > > `PrincipalEntity`
> > > > > > > > exists.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I'll **close PR #4405** and work on the `SecurityIdentity`
> > > > attribute
> > > > > > > > approach instead.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > My understanding of the approach:
> > > > > > > > 1. In `AuthenticatingAugmentor`, when a `PrincipalEntity` is
> > > > > available,
> > > > > > > add
> > > > > > > > it as an optional attribute to `QuarkusSecurityIdentity` (e.g.,
> > > > > under a
> > > > > > > key
> > > > > > > > like `"org.apache.polaris.principal_entity"`)
> > > > > > > > 2. Update `OpaPolarisAuthorizer` and
> > > > `RangerUtils.getUserAttributes`
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > check for this attribute in the `SecurityIdentity` and extract
> > > > > > > user-defined
> > > > > > > > properties from the `PrincipalEntity` when present
> > > > > > > > 3. `PolarisPrincipal` remains unchanged, no property merging
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Also can you help with below:
> > > > > > > > 1. Is the attribute key naming convention above acceptable, or
> > is
> > > > > there
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > existing pattern I should follow for `SecurityIdentity`
> > attribute
> > > > > keys
> > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > Polaris?
> > > > > > > > 2. For `DefaultAuthenticator` when it constructs
> > `PolarisPrincipal`
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > `PrincipalEntity`, should it also add the `PrincipalEntity` to
> > > > > > > > `SecurityIdentity` attributes at that point, or should this
> > only
> > > > > happen
> > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > `AuthenticatingAugmentor`?
> > > > > > > > 3. For the OPA test suite that currently builds principals with
> > > > > > > > user-defined properties should I update those tests to instead
> > set
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > `PrincipalEntity` attribute on `SecurityIdentity` and verify
> > that
> > > > > > > > `OpaPolarisAuthorizer` picks up the properties from there?
> > > > > > > > 4. Should I add a helper method somewhere (e.g.,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > `PolarisPrincipal.getPrincipalEntityFromIdentity(SecurityIdentity)`)
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > > encapsulate the attribute lookup, or is it better to keep the
> > > > lookup
> > > > > > > inline
> > > > > > > > in each consumer?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Let me know if I'm on the right track and I'll proceed with
> > the new
> > > > > PR.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > Prithvi
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2026 at 8:52 PM Alexandre Dutra <
> > [email protected]
> > > > >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hi Prithvi,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks for starting this thread!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > My stance on this matter remains unchanged:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > - PolarisPrincipal and PrincipalEntity should be decoupled.
> > We
> > > > must
> > > > > > > > > avoid the assumption that a PrincipalEntity exists for every
> > > > > > > > > principal, especially in cases involving federated or
> > detached
> > > > > > > > > principals.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > - In my view, the most effective method for propagating the
> > > > > > > > > PrincipalEntity is to treat it as an *optional* attribute
> > within
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > SecurityIdentity.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > how should we ensure user-defined properties are reliably
> > > > > forwarded
> > > > > > > > > across all authenticator implementations, not just
> > > > > > > > `DefaultAuthenticator`?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Such a guarantee is likely unattainable. Because
> > authenticators
> > > > are
> > > > > > > > > designed to be pluggable, custom implementations may be
> > > > completely
> > > > > > > > > unaware of PrincipalEntity. Consequently, any logic that
> > requires
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > presence of a PrincipalEntity within the SecurityIdentity is
> > > > > > > > > fundamentally flawed and should be refactored to remove that
> > > > > > > > > requirement.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What is your use case for retrieving the PrincipalEntity's
> > > > > attributes
> > > > > > > > > at runtime? Is it for auditing purposes or are you building
> > some
> > > > > > > > > business logic on top of it? If the former, it should be
> > fine to
> > > > > just
> > > > > > > > > log "null" if the entity is not present (and you can control
> > the
> > > > > > > > > authenticator in use to make sure it will be present); if the
> > > > > latter,
> > > > > > > > > that would mean that your logic is now dependent on a
> > specific
> > > > > > > > > authenticator's ability to produce a PrincipalEntity, which
> > isn't
> > > > > > > > > great. In that case it may be safer to fetch the
> > PrincipalEntity
> > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > the metastore explicitly.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > > > > > Alex
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jun 14, 2026 at 8:56 PM Prithvi S <
> > > > > > [email protected]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I'm opening this thread as suggested by @dimas-b in the
> > review
> > > > of
> > > > > > PR
> > > > > > > > > #4405 (
> > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/4405), which
> > touches
> > > > > > > > > authentication
> > > > > > > > > > and authorization behavior. @flyrain also flagged a prior
> > > > > dev-list
> > > > > > > > thread
> > > > > > > > > > from April 2026 on the same topic, so I want to make sure
> > that
> > > > > > > > discussion
> > > > > > > > > > is continued here.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Background
> > > > > > > > > > `PolarisPrincipal.of(PrincipalEntity, …)` currently
> > forwards
> > > > only
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > entity's *internal* properties (e.g. `client_id`) and
> > silently
> > > > > > drops
> > > > > > > > any
> > > > > > > > > > *user-defined* properties set at principal creation time
> > (e.g.
> > > > > > > > > > `region=northamerica`, `department=finance`).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > As a result, downstream consumers of
> > > > > > > `PolarisPrincipal.getProperties()`
> > > > > > > > > > never see user attributes, and ABAC policies written
> > against
> > > > them
> > > > > > > never
> > > > > > > > > > match. This affects:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - `DefaultAuthenticator` : constructs `PolarisPrincipal`
> > during
> > > > > > > > > > authentication
> > > > > > > > > > - `AuthenticatingAugmentor` : copies principal properties
> > into
> > > > > > > > > > `QuarkusSecurityIdentity` attributes
> > > > > > > > > > - External authorizers : `OpaPolarisAuthorizer` and
> > > > > > > > > > `RangerUtils.getUserAttributes` consume these as user
> > > > attributes
> > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > > policy
> > > > > > > > > > evaluation
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The existing OPA test suite already builds principals with
> > > > > > > user-defined
> > > > > > > > > > properties (e.g. `department=finance`), demonstrating the
> > > > > intended
> > > > > > > > > > contract, which the production code path cannot currently
> > > > honor.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What PR #4405 does
> > > > > > > > > > The fix adds a `mergeEntityProperties()` helper that
> > combines
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > `PrincipalEntity`'s user-defined and internal properties,
> > and
> > > > > uses
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > merged map when constructing `PolarisPrincipal` via the
> > > > > > > > > > `of(PrincipalEntity, …)` overload.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The design question raised:
> > > > > > > > > > @flyrain pointed out that in April 2026, @adutra raised a
> > > > concern
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > `PolarisPrincipal` was *intentionally* decoupled from
> > > > > > > `PrincipalEntity`
> > > > > > > > > > (see PR #2307), and suggested an alternative approach:
> > expose
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > persisted
> > > > > > > > > > `PrincipalEntity` as a `SecurityIdentity` attribute rather
> > than
> > > > > > > > widening
> > > > > > > > > > `getProperties()`.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > PR #4405 takes the opposite direction by merging properties
> > > > > > directly
> > > > > > > > into
> > > > > > > > > > `PolarisPrincipal`. I want to understand whether this is
> > > > > acceptable
> > > > > > > or
> > > > > > > > > > whether the community prefers the `SecurityIdentity`
> > attribute
> > > > > > > approach
> > > > > > > > > > instead.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > questions I have,
> > > > > > > > > > 1. Was the decoupling of `PolarisPrincipal` from
> > > > > `PrincipalEntity`
> > > > > > > (PR
> > > > > > > > > > #2307) intended to prevent exactly this kind of property
> > merge?
> > > > > If
> > > > > > > so,
> > > > > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > > > is the preferred mechanism for exposing user-defined
> > principal
> > > > > > > > attributes
> > > > > > > > > > to downstream auth consumers?
> > > > > > > > > > 2. Is the `SecurityIdentity` attribute approach (exposing
> > > > > > > > > `PrincipalEntity`
> > > > > > > > > > directly) the right path, or are there other concerns with
> > > > that?
> > > > > > > > > > 3. Since authenticators are pluggable, how should we ensure
> > > > > > > > user-defined
> > > > > > > > > > properties are reliably forwarded across all authenticator
> > > > > > > > > implementations,
> > > > > > > > > > not just `DefaultAuthenticator`?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Happy to revise the approach based on community feedback.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > > > > > Prithvi S
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >

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