HI JB,

Good idea about a meeting to talk about this proposal! I think it will
helpful for everybody.

Cheers,
Dmitri.

On Tue, Jul 21, 2026 at 9:58 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I would like to move forward with this proposal.
>
> I will resume the change on this one according to your comments.
>
> I would also like to propose a dedicated meeting to discuss Polaris
> Directories and align all together (and make it happen :) ).
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Regards
> JB
>
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2026 at 3:40 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >
> > Let me clarify: the scan service code is in Polaris (the default) but
> running outside of the Polaris server.
> >
> > Regards
> > JB
> >
> > Le dim. 21 juin 2026 à 20:30, Yufei Gu <[email protected]> a écrit :
> >>
> >> Thanks JB! I think that's the right direction.
> >>
> >> That said, I don't think the default scan service should run inside the
> Polaris service itself. Scanning can be very I/O and network intensive and
> could easily saturate a Polaris instance. We'll likely need a delegation
> service for that.
> >>
> >> I think the most practical path forward is to work on the delegation
> service to unblock it. In parallel, we can continue working on volume
> support without the inventory table.
> >>
> >> Yufei
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jun 20, 2026 at 10:37 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi everyone
> >>>
> >>> Thanks to your feedback, I will update the proposal/PR to include a
> default
> >>> object store scan service in Polaris (that can be disabled and
> replaced by
> >>> a custom one).
> >>>
> >>> I will keep you posted when the PR is updated.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>> JB
> >>>
> >>> Le mar. 9 juin 2026 à 21:42, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]> a
> >>> écrit :
> >>>
> >>> > Hi Robert,
> >>> >
> >>> > Thanks for your feedback!
> >>> >
> >>> > From a user perspective, I personally prefer having the Directory and
> >>> > Table share the same name, as I find it less confusing to see the
> >>> > association at first glance. However, I'm open to including the
> inventory
> >>> > table name as part of the Directory configuration instead.
> >>> >
> >>> > As mentioned in my initial proposal, the current PR is intended to
> >>> > illustrate a potential implementation. It is certainly not the final
> >>> > version, and I am happy to update it based on community input. I
> fully
> >>> > agree with the high-level model you outlined, and I believe the PR is
> >>> > well-aligned with that direction.
> >>> >
> >>> > I still believe the inventory table is essential, as it represents
> the
> >>> > core value of the Directory and scanner; without it, users could
> simply
> >>> > create an Iceberg table manually to list objects.
> >>> > I'm fine to have add a endpoint in the Directory API to create a
> inventory
> >>> > table without scanning (but using the static schema) and also other
> >>> > endpoints to deal with entries in an inventory (if you think it's
> helpful).
> >>> >
> >>> > Regards,
> >>> > JB
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > On Mon, Jun 8, 2026 at 1:27 PM Robert Stupp <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> >> Hi,
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I support the general direction.
> >>> >> Modeling a directory/prefix as a first-class catalog concept in
> Polaris,
> >>> >> complete with an inventory table for discovered objects, seems very
> >>> >> useful.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I think we should separate agreement on that direction from locking
> in the
> >>> >> exact object model too early, though.
> >>> >> One design point I would like to keep open is the relationship
> between the
> >>> >> directory configuration and the inventory table.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> For example, if the directory configuration and the inventory table
> share
> >>> >> the same name in the same namespace and are distinguished only by
> object
> >>> >> type, that may be workable, but it can create ambiguity for APIs,
> UI,
> >>> >> events, authorization/audit, and lifecycle operations like
> rename/drop.
> >>> >> I don’t think we need to settle that in the first discussion, but I
> also
> >>> >> would not want the current PR shape to imply that this part is
> already
> >>> >> fixed.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> My preference would be to first agree on the higher-level model:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> - Polaris has a first-class Directory abstraction.
> >>> >> - A Directory has a configured object-store location and
> scan/inventory
> >>> >> settings.
> >>> >> - A Directory is associated with an Iceberg inventory table.
> >>> >> - Scanner execution can be discussed separately: Polaris-provided,
> >>> >> disabled, or integrator-provided.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Then we can discuss whether the inventory table is implicitly named,
> >>> >> explicitly referenced, hidden/internal, user-visible, or modeled
> some
> >>> >> other
> >>> >> way.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Thoughts?
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Robert
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Sun, Jun 7, 2026 at 7:07 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
> [email protected]>
> >>> >> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> > Hi
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > I wanted to have two steps in the proposal: the configuration and
> high
> >>> >> > level architecture (that’s the current proposal), then the
> scanning
> >>> >> > service.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > I think the scanning should be part of Polaris but not mandatory:
> if
> >>> >> > integrators want to have their own scanning they should be able
> to do
> >>> >> so.
> >>> >> > The Polaris scanners should be disabled by users. Integrators
> would
> >>> >> > probably like to have scanning performed by a distributed engines
> or
> >>> >> within
> >>> >> > cloud provider infra.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > So my proposal here is:
> >>> >> > 1. To have scanner in Polaris
> >>> >> > 2. Be able to disable the Polaris scanner
> >>> >> > 3. Allow users/integrators to provide their own scanners
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > The first step is to get consensus on the Polaris Directories
> proposal
> >>> >> > approach.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > I will create a follow up PR with a scanner.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Regards
> >>> >> > JB
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Le ven. 5 juin 2026 à 23:25, Yufei Gu <[email protected]> a
> écrit :
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > > I think one thing we should clarify is where the scanner lives.
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> > > If the scanner is completely outside Polaris, the UX becomes a
> bit
> >>> >> > > confusing to me. In that model, Polaris only stores a directory
> >>> >> > > configuration, while users still need to bring their own
> service to
> >>> >> scan
> >>> >> > > object storage and write an Iceberg table. In that case, I’m
> not sure
> >>> >> > what
> >>> >> > > value Polaris Directories add over *manually creating an Iceberg
> >>> >> table to
> >>> >> > > track unstructured data files*. Users can already do that
> today, and
> >>> >> it
> >>> >> > is
> >>> >> > > arguably more flexible because they can define any schema they
> want
> >>> >> and
> >>> >> > use
> >>> >> > > any engine or workflow to populate it.
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> > > To me, the more compelling direction is for Polaris to own the
> >>> >> scanner or
> >>> >> > > at least provide it as part of the project, likely through a
> push mode
> >>> >> > > delegation service[1]. Polaris would still not need to do all
> the
> >>> >> heavy
> >>> >> > > scanning work itself, but it should provide a clear, first class
> >>> >> workflow
> >>> >> > > for turning a directory configuration into an updated directory
> table,
> >>> >> > via
> >>> >> > > a delegated service.
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> > > That also seems related to Romain’s questions. If the metadata
> >>> >> extraction
> >>> >> > > and scanning model are fully external, then extensibility and
> >>> >> streaming
> >>> >> > > support become entirely out of scope. But if Polaris provides
> the
> >>> >> scanner
> >>> >> > > framework, we can define clear extension points for custom
> metadata
> >>> >> and
> >>> >> > > think about supportting both batch and event driven scanning.
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> > > 1.
> >>> >>
> https://github.com/apache/polaris/issues/3786#issuecomment-4503583696
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> > > Yufei
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> > > On Fri, Jun 5, 2026 at 2:41 AM Romain Manni-Bucau <
> >>> >> [email protected]
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> > > wrote:
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> > > > Hi JB,
> >>> >> > > >
> >>> >> > > > I have two questions on this scope:
> >>> >> > > >
> >>> >> > > > 1. any hope it is extensible so an user can plug its own
> metadata?
> >>> >> > > > 2. will scanning be made streaming friendly (I assume phase 0
> is a
> >>> >> > > batch),
> >>> >> > > > idea would be to be able to use Kappa like architecture to
> have real
> >>> >> > time
> >>> >> > > > capabilities
> >>> >> > > >
> >>> >> > > > Thanks,
> >>> >> > > > Romain Manni-Bucau
> >>> >> > > > @rmannibucau <https://x.com/rmannibucau> | .NET Blog
> >>> >> > > > <https://dotnetbirdie.github.io/> | Blog <
> >>> >> > https://rmannibucau.github.io/
> >>> >> > > >
> >>> >> > > > | Old
> >>> >> > > > Blog <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github
> >>> >> > > > <https://github.com/rmannibucau> | LinkedIn
> >>> >> > > > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book
> >>> >> > > > <
> >>> >> > > >
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >>
> https://www.packtpub.com/en-us/product/java-ee-8-high-performance-9781788473064
> >>> >> > > > >
> >>> >> > > > Javaccino founder (Java/.NET service - contact via linkedin)
> >>> >> > > >
> >>> >> > > >
> >>> >> > > > Le ven. 5 juin 2026 à 02:20, Yufei Gu <[email protected]>
> a
> >>> >> écrit :
> >>> >> > > >
> >>> >> > > > > Great to see the progress here. Thanks a lot JB! I will
> take a
> >>> >> look
> >>> >> > at
> >>> >> > > > the
> >>> >> > > > > PR.
> >>> >> > > > >
> >>> >> > > > > Yufei
> >>> >> > > > >
> >>> >> > > > >
> >>> >> > > > > On Thu, Jun 4, 2026 at 2:58 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <
> >>> >> [email protected]
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> > > > > wrote:
> >>> >> > > > >
> >>> >> > > > > > Hi everyone,
> >>> >> > > > > >
> >>> >> > > > > > After several months of discussion (involving
> Directories, Table
> >>> >> > > > Sources,
> >>> >> > > > > > etc), I would like to propose Polaris Directories.
> >>> >> > > > > >
> >>> >> > > > > > I drafted a PR:
> >>> >> > > > > > https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/4613
> >>> >> > > > > >
> >>> >> > > > > > The proposal is documented as part of the PR:
> >>> >> > > > > >
> >>> >> > > > > >
> >>> >> > > > >
> >>> >> > > >
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >>
> https://github.com/jbonofre/polaris/blob/12dfea48570d076d4012143e66f02e8b503c4f99/site/content/in-dev/unreleased/directories.md
> >>> >> > > > > >
> >>> >> > > > > > In a nutshell, Polaris Directories make objects (including
> >>> >> > > unstructured
> >>> >> > > > > > data like images, videos, and documents) discoverable
> alongside
> >>> >> > > > > structured
> >>> >> > > > > > Iceberg tables within a Polaris catalog. A directory
> points to a
> >>> >> > base
> >>> >> > > > > > location/prefix on an object store and automatically
> tracks the
> >>> >> > > objects
> >>> >> > > > > it
> >>> >> > > > > > contains by maintaining an Iceberg table with object-level
> >>> >> metadata
> >>> >> > > > such
> >>> >> > > > > as
> >>> >> > > > > > URI, size, content type, checksum, ...
> >>> >> > > > > >
> >>> >> > > > > > This means query engines and tools that already know how
> to read
> >>> >> > > > Iceberg
> >>> >> > > > > > tables can discover and access unstructured data with
> little or
> >>> >> no
> >>> >> > > > extra
> >>> >> > > > > > work (accessing the object itself).
> >>> >> > > > > >
> >>> >> > > > > > A directory has two main parts:
> >>> >> > > > > > - Directory configuration, stored by the Polaris server.
> It
> >>> >> > describes
> >>> >> > > > > where
> >>> >> > > > > > the data lives, how to authenticate, which objects to
> include,
> >>> >> and
> >>> >> > > how
> >>> >> > > > > > often to re-scan. The configuration "lives" in a
> namespace.
> >>> >> > > > > > - Directory table, an Iceberg table serving as the
> inventory of
> >>> >> all
> >>> >> > > > > objects
> >>> >> > > > > > contained in the directory, with one row per object
> discovered
> >>> >> > > during a
> >>> >> > > > > > scan. The directory table uses the configuration name.
> >>> >> > > > > > The Polaris server itself does not perform scans. Instead,
> >>> >> external
> >>> >> > > > > > services (e.g. directory table scanning service) read the
> >>> >> directory
> >>> >> > > > > > configuration through the REST API, walk the object
> store, and
> >>> >> > write
> >>> >> > > > the
> >>> >> > > > > > results into the directory table.
> >>> >> > > > > >
> >>> >> > > > > > I propose we discuss this both on the mailing list (this
> thread)
> >>> >> > and
> >>> >> > > on
> >>> >> > > > > the
> >>> >> > > > > > PR. If needed, I'm happy to schedule a dedicated meeting.
> >>> >> > > > > >
> >>> >> > > > > > I'm looking forward to your thoughts!
> >>> >> > > > > >
> >>> >> > > > > > Thanks!
> >>> >> > > > > >
> >>> >> > > > > > Regards
> >>> >> > > > > > JB
> >>> >> > > > > >
> >>> >> > > > >
> >>> >> > > >
> >>> >> > >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >>
> >>> >
>

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