Thanks for chiming in, JB! That's essentially the approach in my PR(4984 <https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/4984>), which corresponds to Option 2 in Robert's email. Are we OK moving foward with this?
Per-realm routing is a potential use case, not the scope of this effort. Yufei On Sun, Jul 26, 2026 at 10:03 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi > > As already said, I still think Quarkus/Agroal stays the default and > single supported pool. I think adding a narrow, JVM-only, documented > runtime driver escape hatch is right. > > Concretely, I would: > 1. Split the PR: runtime driver loading is a small, defensible > feature. The second pool, and per-realm routing are not imho, and > should not ride in on its coattails. > 2. I think per-realm routing is a way bigger architectural decision. > 3. I think we should have an explicit agreement on the contract before > merging. > > The best would be to use Agroal, supporting a runtime-mounted driver > in JVM mode. I will ping my Quarkus contacts to get the status of > that. > > Regards > JB > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 10:24 PM Yufei Gu <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Robert, > > > > I don't think these are hypothetical use cases. They've been recurring > > design topics in Polaris for well over a year. > > > > - A JDBC driver supplied at runtime instead of being on the build time > > classpath is important for proprietary and Apache license incompatible > > drivers, such as MySQL. This has been discussed in the community for > some > > time, and PR #4281[4] was blocked by this limitation. > > - We've also discussed realm based datasource routing repeatedly. For > > example: > > - Issue #3890 [1] tracks multi datasource support and explicitly > > discusses whether separation should be per realm or by workload. > > - PR #1482 [2] proposed a concrete realm to datasource mapping. The > > discussion wasn't that the use case was invalid, but that > Quarkus's build > > time datasource model made it difficult. > > - PR #3960 [3] introduced DataSourceResolver as groundwork for > > datasource routing. The feedback was to refine the design, not > > that the use > > case itself shouldn't be supported. > > > > Given this history, I don't think the question is whether these are real > > use cases. The project has already acknowledged them multiple times. > > > > Romain, thanks for the suggestion. I wish this could be resolved upstream > > in Quarkus, but I don't have much hope, since build time dependency > > resolution is one of Quarkus's core design principles. > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/polaris/issues/3890 > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/1482 > > > > [3] https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/3960 > > > > [4] https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/4281 > > > > Yufei > > > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2026 at 8:54 AM Romain Manni-Bucau < > [email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > If down stream users need to build anything instead of mount the driver > > > then polaris becomes a lib and not a server, think very few consumer > see it > > > this way nor would like it so I would favor runtime support. > > > > > > The side note is that it is always better to not compète with its own > stack > > > so maybe two push back to quarkus natively before acting there. > > > > > > > > > Romain Manni-Bucau > > > @rmannibucau <https://x.com/rmannibucau> | .NET Blog > > > <https://dotnetbirdie.github.io/> | Blog < > https://rmannibucau.github.io/> > > > | Old > > > Blog <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github > > > <https://github.com/rmannibucau> | LinkedIn > > > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book > > > < > > > > https://www.packtpub.com/en-us/product/java-ee-8-high-performance-9781788473064 > > > > > > > Javaccino founder (Java/.NET service - contact via linkedin) > > > > > > Le ven. 24 juil. 2026, 17:50, Robert Stupp <[email protected]> a écrit : > > > > > > > Hi Yufei, > > > > > > > > Option 1 would not provide either capability at runtime in the > upstream > > > > Polaris distribution. > > > > Optional drivers would be added through a downstream build or > assembly, > > > and > > > > datasource creation would remain Quarkus-managed. > > > > > > > > That is intentional rather than a missing part of option 1. > > > > I mentioned runtime driver loading and per-realm routing because > they are > > > > the two use cases stated for the POC, not because I think the > project has > > > > already agreed that Polaris itself must support both. > > > > > > > > The concrete current ask I see is a viable path for optional drivers > that > > > > Polaris cannot distribute in ASF releases. > > > > Runtime loading is one possible answer to that ask. > > > > A downstream build or assembly is another. > > > > > > > > Dynamic per-realm datasource creation is a separate future design. > > > > I do not think it should become an implicit requirement for the > > > > optional-driver decision before its isolation, lifecycle, resource, > and > > > > operational contract has been discussed. > > > > > > > > So before evaluating option 1 against option 2's capabilities, I > think we > > > > need to decide whether runtime driver loading and Polaris-owned > dynamic > > > > datasource creation are project requirements. > > > > If both are requirements, option 1 is naturally excluded. > > > > If they are not, the POC's additional capabilities should not by > > > themselves > > > > become acceptance criteria for every alternative. > > > > > > > > My preference remains to preserve the Quarkus-managed path and > address > > > the > > > > optional-driver ask as narrowly as possible. > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2026 at 8:59 PM Yufei Gu <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That ask does not by itself justify moving all supported > deployments > > > > away > > > > > > from Quarkus datasource management. > > > > > > Doing so would make Polaris responsible for configuration > > > > compatibility, > > > > > > lifecycle, health, metrics, tracing, credentials-provider > > > integration, > > > > > > shutdown, upgrades, and the support matrix currently covered by > > > > Quarkus. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Keep Quarkus-managed data-sources and document the downstream > > > > > > build/assembly path for optional drivers. > > > > > > 2. Keep Quarkus-managed data-sources as the default and add a > > > > > deliberately > > > > > > limited JVM-only runtime-driver escape hatch. > > > > > > 3. Replace Quarkus-managed data-sources completely. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My current preference is ... (option1). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Robert, one thing I'm still unclear about is how option 1 would > support > > > > the > > > > > following use cases that you mentioned: > > > > > > > > > > - Loading optional JDBC drivers at runtime. > > > > > - Creating datasources dynamically as a building block for > future > > > per > > > > > realm routing. > > > > > > > > > > My PR proposes option 2 because it addresses these use cases while > > > > keeping > > > > > the existing Quarkus managed deployment path unchanged. > > > > > > > > > > Yufei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2026 at 8:59 AM Dmitri Bourlatchkov < > [email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Yufei, > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder why you chose Hikari initially in your PR 4984. > > > Understanding > > > > > that > > > > > > rationale could be helpful for this discussion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Dmitri. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 22, 2026 at 11:28 PM Yufei Gu <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks like we have two options at this point: Hikari (Alex, > me) and > > > > > > Agroal > > > > > > > (Dmitri, JB, Romain). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is there any further investigation we should do before making a > > > > > decision? > > > > > > > Or are we ready to start a vote? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yufei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2026 at 10:15 PM Romain Manni-Bucau < > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe add "is there more than one committer" on the project > as a > > > > > > > criteria. > > > > > > > > Agroal is far to be my preferred pool but it is as easy as > others > > > > in > > > > > > > terms > > > > > > > > of config starting from properties ([1]) and using its > listeners. > > > > > > > > Also note that I assume all properties will not be exposed > but > > > > > > abstracted > > > > > > > > by polaris configuration (potentially enabling a switch > later or > > > a > > > > > > > > multipool support like in Apache TomEE) so maybe it is the > first > > > > > thing > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > define, the needed properties and callbacks? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/agroal/agroal/blob/517fd36ab0cf1faebaae7d57a55c788d499a4c88/agroal-api/src/main/java/io/agroal/api/configuration/supplier/AgroalPropertiesReader.java#L56 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Romain Manni-Bucau > > > > > > > > @rmannibucau <https://x.com/rmannibucau> | .NET Blog > > > > > > > > <https://dotnetbirdie.github.io/> | Blog < > > > > > > https://rmannibucau.github.io/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > | Old > > > > > > > > Blog <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/rmannibucau> | LinkedIn > > > > > > > > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.packtpub.com/en-us/product/java-ee-8-high-performance-9781788473064 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Javaccino founder (Java/.NET service - contact via linkedin) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le jeu. 16 juil. 2026 à 22:18, Alexandre Dutra < > > > [email protected]> > > > > a > > > > > > > > écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think the actual pool implementation matters much, > but > > > I > > > > > > would > > > > > > > > > weigh in some important criteria before choosing: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Is it easily configurable? > > > > > > > > > - Is it easily instrumentable? > > > > > > > > > - Is it well documented & maintained? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While Agroal is the de facto choice for Quarkus (it's a > JBoss > > > > > lib), I > > > > > > > > > am not sure it outperforms Hikari for all the criteria > above. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2026 at 6:22 PM Yufei Gu < > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks everyone for chiming in. Agroal is a good option > as > > > > well. > > > > > It > > > > > > > > looks > > > > > > > > > > like we're reaching consensus on direct datasource > management > > > > at > > > > > > > > runtime. > > > > > > > > > > I'll start working on the implementation soon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yufei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2026 at 4:16 AM Jean-Baptiste Onofré < > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that direct datasource management at runtime > is a > > > > > better > > > > > > > > > > > approach than relying on quarkus-datasource, which > > > currently > > > > > > > requires > > > > > > > > > > > build-time dependencies. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, we can stay within the Quarkus ecosystem and > avoid > > > > > > > > > > > introducing new dependencies by using Agroal, which is > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > included in our dependencies. This also keeps the door > open > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > combining it with Panache in the future, should we > decide > > > to > > > > do > > > > > > so. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > JB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2026 at 1:28 AM Yufei Gu < > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If our goal is to transition entirely to a > > > > "runtime-driven" > > > > > > > > > > > architecture, > > > > > > > > > > > > we should commit to it completely by fully removing > the > > > > > > > > > > > > io.quarkus:quarkus-datasource > > > > > > > > > > > > dependency and switching to Hikari unconditionally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good point, Alex! I'm open to that. If the community > > > > agrees, > > > > > I > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > make > > > > > > > > > > > > that change. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Romain, I chose Hikari because it is lean, fast, > simple. > > > > I'm > > > > > > open > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > alternatives like dbcp2 if its evaluation proves > better. > > > As > > > > > you > > > > > > > > said, > > > > > > > > > > > both > > > > > > > > > > > > have pros and cons. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yufei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 15, 2026 at 11:03 AM Romain Manni-Bucau < > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dumb question: why hikari? it has some issues like > not > > > > > > > respecting > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > conf > > > > > > > > > > > > > intentionally (max size in particular is the one > which > > > > > hurts > > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > you > > > > > > > > > > > > > overconsume for a moment your database connections > == > > > > > prevent > > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > services > > > > > > > > > > > > > to connect when scaled and tuned at max count), > there > > > is > > > > no > > > > > > > > silver > > > > > > > > > > > bullet > > > > > > > > > > > > > but something like dbcp2 can be neat to start > _there_ > > > if > > > > > > agroal > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > used > > > > > > > > > > > > > as a base no - that said I dont see why switching > at > > > all, > > > > > > > agroal > > > > > > > > > can be > > > > > > > > > > > > > used without build time integration and stay > consistent > > > > > with > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > if > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > day it > > > > > > > > > > > > > comes back? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Romain Manni-Bucau > > > > > > > > > > > > > @rmannibucau <https://x.com/rmannibucau> | .NET > Blog > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://dotnetbirdie.github.io/> | Blog < > > > > > > > > > > > https://rmannibucau.github.io/> > > > > > > > > > > > > > | Old > > > > > > > > > > > > > Blog <http://rmannibucau.wordpress.com> | Github > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://github.com/rmannibucau> | LinkedIn > > > > > > > > > > > > > <https://www.linkedin.com/in/rmannibucau> | Book > > > > > > > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.packtpub.com/en-us/product/java-ee-8-high-performance-9781788473064 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Javaccino founder (Java/.NET service - contact via > > > > > linkedin) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le mer. 15 juil. 2026 à 19:13, Alexandre Dutra < > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > écrit : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If jdbc-url is set, Polaris creates and owns > the > > > > Hikari > > > > > > > > > > > datasource. If > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it is not set, we keep using the existing Quarkus > > > > > > datasource > > > > > > > > > path. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have strong reservations regarding this design. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alternating between a Hikari pool and an Agroal > pool > > > > > > > depending > > > > > > > > > on the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > configuration introduces unnecessary complexity > and > > > > > > potential > > > > > > > > > > > > > > confusion. A major drawback is that bugs, > performance > > > > > > > > > > > characteristics, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and configuration issues will vary across > deployments > > > > > > purely > > > > > > > > > based on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the underlying connection pool in use. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If our goal is to transition entirely to a > > > > > "runtime-driven" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > architecture, we should commit to it completely > by > > > > fully > > > > > > > > > removing the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > io.quarkus:quarkus-datasource dependency and > > > switching > > > > to > > > > > > > > Hikari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > unconditionally. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2026 at 7:10 PM Yufei Gu < > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Robert, JB, Dmitri, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, this feedback makes sense. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are really two motivations here: runtime > > > > loading > > > > > of > > > > > > > > JDBC > > > > > > > > > > > drivers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dynamic datasource creation. The former is > useful > > > for > > > > > ASF > > > > > > > > > binaries > > > > > > > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > driver is supplied after Polaris is built. The > > > latter > > > > > is > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > building > > > > > > > > > > > > > block > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for future per realm datasources. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm OK that Quarkus/Agroal remains the default > for > > > > > > > supported > > > > > > > > > > > backends. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's already part of the POC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The gap I'm trying to address is where those > > > > > assumptions > > > > > > no > > > > > > > > > longer > > > > > > > > > > > > > hold. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quarkus can select from predefined > datasources, but > > > > > they > > > > > > > > still > > > > > > > > > > > need to > > > > > > > > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > configured ahead of time. It doesn't currently > > > > provide > > > > > > > > Polaris > > > > > > > > > > > with a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > clean > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > way to create new datasources dynamically. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So my intent is for the contract to be: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Quarkus/Agroal remains the default. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Polaris managed JDBC is a JVM only escape > > > hatch > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > runtime > > > > > > > > > > > > > provided > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > drivers and dynamically created datasources. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Polaris owns the pool and driver > lifecycle on > > > > that > > > > > > > path. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Per realm datasource routing should be a > > > > separate > > > > > > > design > > > > > > > > > > > > > discussion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's out of scope for this POC. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JB, I agree we should continue using Quarkus > JDBC > > > > > drivers > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > backends > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we support directly. This path is mainly for > the > > > > cases > > > > > > > > outside > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > model. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yufei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2026 at 8:03 AM Jean-Baptiste > > > Onofré < > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regarding JDBC drivers in the Quarkus > ecosystem > > > (in > > > > > > > > > > > > > quarkus-extensions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > quarkiverse), I think we can just leverage > the > > > > > quarkus > > > > > > > JDBC > > > > > > > > > > > drivers. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Using another loading mechanism could be > > > > problematic > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > future > > > > > > > > > > > > > > features > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (imagine with we want to try native app > buld). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the problem with using the Quarkus > JDBC > > > > > > drivers? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember that we agreed to be opinionated > about > > > > the > > > > > > > JDBC > > > > > > > > > > > backends > > > > > > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > > > > > > > want > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to support, so we can be opinionated about > the > > > JDBC > > > > > > > drivers > > > > > > > > > :) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not against it, but I would like to > > > understand > > > > > > better > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rationale. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JB > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2026 at 3:03 PM Robert Stupp < > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for pushing this forward. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree that runtime-provided JDBC drivers > are > > > a > > > > > real > > > > > > > > > problem > > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > > > > > solve. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For ASF-distributed binaries, there are > valid > > > > cases > > > > > > > where > > > > > > > > > > > Polaris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > not bundle a driver, but operators still > need a > > > > way > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > provide > > > > > > > > > > > one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My concern is that this PR does more than > load > > > > > > runtime > > > > > > > > > driver > > > > > > > > > > > jars. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It also introduces a second datasource > stack: > > > > > > > > > Quarkus/Agroal > > > > > > > > > > > via > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > `quarkus.datasource.*` on one side, and > > > > > Polaris-owned > > > > > > > > > Hikari > > > > > > > > > > > pools > > > > > > > > > > > > > > via > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > `polaris.persistence.relational.jdbc.*` on > the > > > > > other. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Those two paths look similar to operators, > but > > > > they > > > > > > do > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > have the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > same > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > contract. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Quarkus path brings Quarkus/Agroal > > > lifecycle, > > > > > > > health, > > > > > > > > > > > metrics, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > credentials/secret-manager integrations, > and > > > the > > > > > > > broader > > > > > > > > > > > datasource > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > config > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > surface; those are all important for > operators. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The Polaris-managed path means Polaris owns > > > pool > > > > > > > > lifecycle, > > > > > > > > > > > driver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > loading, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > classloader behavior, and a separate > > > > config/support > > > > > > > > > surface. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I do not think this is ready to move > forward > > > > as > > > > > > just > > > > > > > > > > > “another > > > > > > > > > > > > > JDBC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > configuration option.” > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Before I would consider this mergeable, I > think > > > > we > > > > > > need > > > > > > > > > > > explicit > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > agreement > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the contract: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1. Is Polaris-managed JDBC only a narrow > escape > > > > > hatch > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > runtime-provided > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > driver jars, or a peer supported datasource > > > path? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2. Which Quarkus/Agroal integrations are > > > > > > intentionally > > > > > > > > not > > > > > > > > > > > > > available > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > that path? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3. What lifecycle does Polaris own for > pools, > > > > > loaded > > > > > > > > > drivers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > shutdown, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > driver upgrades? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4. Is this meant to be part of future > per-realm > > > > > > > > datasource > > > > > > > > > > > routing? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that needs a separate design > > > discussion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Until that contract is agreed, I do not > think > > > we > > > > > > should > > > > > > > > > present > > > > > > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > second supported JDBC path or treat the PR > as > > > > > > mergeable > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > documentation > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > updates alone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Jul 7, 2026 at 3:48 AM Dmitri > > > > Bourlatchkov > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Yufei, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the update. That approach to > > > loading > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > driver > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > work, I > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > think. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I'm not sure whether it is > > > preferable > > > > > to a > > > > > > > > > proper > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quarkus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > downstream build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Adding jars to Polaris still requires > some > > > form > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > downstream > > > > > > > > > > > > > > build, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > whether it is tar-based or docker-based. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Performing a full Quarkus build > downstream > > > > offers > > > > > > > some > > > > > > > > > > > > > advantages, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > though: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Integration tests can be executed with > the > > > > > > specific > > > > > > > > > driver. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Dependencies are resolved / validated > at > > > > build > > > > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > * Quarkus manages the DataSource > lifecycle. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I wonder what other people think too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dmitri. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2026 at 9:22 PM Yufei Gu < > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Dmitri, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good catch. The initial POC only > proved the > > > > > > driver > > > > > > > > > works if > > > > > > > > > > > > > it’s > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > already > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > visible to the runtime classloader. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I updated the approach so the > > > Polaris-managed > > > > > > JDBC > > > > > > > > > > > datasource > > > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > load > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > driver jars explicitly before creating > > > > Hikari. > > > > > In > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > binary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > distribution, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > users can drop jars into: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > server/jdbc-drivers/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For admin-tool bootstrap/purge, the > same > > > > > applies > > > > > > > > under: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > admin/jdbc-drivers/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They can also override the location > with: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > polaris.persistence.relational.jdbc.driver-directory=/path/to/jdbc-drivers > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So this does not depend on adding jars > to > > > > > > lib/main > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > > > > > > rebuilding > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quarkus fast-jar metadata. The jar just > > > needs > > > > > to > > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > present > > > > > > > > > > > > > > before > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Polaris > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > creates the datasource. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yufei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2026 at 3:25 PM Dmitri > > > > > > Bourlatchkov > > > > > > > < > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Yufei, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Could you provide some more details > about > > > > how > > > > > > > > > exactly a > > > > > > > > > > > 3rd > > > > > > > > > > > > > > party > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JDBC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > driver is incorporated into Polaris? > I > > > > might > > > > > > have > > > > > > > > > missed > > > > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > PR, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > but it was not apparent to me at > first > > > > > reading. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dmitri. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jul 6, 2026 at 6:22 PM Yufei > Gu < > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I put together a small POC( > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/polaris/pull/4984 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the relational JDBC backend so > Polaris > > > > can > > > > > > > create > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > > own > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JDBC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > datasource > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from config, instead of always > relying > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > Quarkus > > > > > > > > > > > > > > datasource. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The config looks like this: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > polaris.persistence.relational.jdbc.jdbc-url=jdbc:postgresql://... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > polaris.persistence.relational.jdbc.driver=org.postgresql.Driver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > polaris.persistence.relational.jdbc.username=... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > polaris.persistence.relational.jdbc.password=... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If jdbc-url is set, Polaris > creates and > > > > > owns > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > Hikari > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > datasource. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is not set, we keep using the > existing > > > > > > Quarkus > > > > > > > > > > > datasource > > > > > > > > > > > > > > path. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also added tests showing that: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - We can create datasources > > > > dynamically > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > config > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - Different configurations can > > > create > > > > > > > > > independent > > > > > > > > > > > > > > datasources, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > could help future per-realm > > > datasource > > > > > > > support > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - A JDBC driver can be supplied > at > > > > > runtime > > > > > > > > from > > > > > > > > > a > > > > > > > > > > > jar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > instead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > being > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on the build-time classpath. > This is > > > > > very > > > > > > > > > helpful > > > > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > proprietary > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apache license-incompatible > drivers, > > > > > like > > > > > > > > MySQL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This POC does not yet implement > full > > > > > > per-realm > > > > > > > > > > > datasource > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > routing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > demonstrates the lower-level > building > > > > > blocks: > > > > > > > > > Polaris > > > > > > > > > > > can > > > > > > > > > > > > > > create > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > managed > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JDBC pools from config, multiple > pools > > > > can > > > > > be > > > > > > > > > created > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > independently, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the JDBC driver can be supplied at > > > > runtime. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Feedback is welcome before I turn > this > > > > > into a > > > > > > > > > formal > > > > > > > > > > > PR. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yufei > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
