L.S.,

I think a consistent look and feel is important indeed, so if we want
to keep using that template, we probably have to run it by
[email protected].

Another option could be that we start with a simple HTML/CSS and build
the new look and feel the same way as we do with the rest of our
software, incrementally and by adding features/eye candy/... while we
go.  My own little mockup would be one candidate obviously, but if
someone (with better web design skills) wants to take a stab at
creating a better proposal in the next few days, go for it ;)  I think
the main point would be to get something nice and simple to implement
in the site/docs/webconsole done that can serve as the foundation for
building the new look and feel.


Regards,

Gert Vanthienen
------------------------
FuseSource
Web: http://fusesource.com
Blog: http://gertvanthienen.blogspot.com/



On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Guillaume Nodet <[email protected]> wrote:
> The template Chris has been using is available at
> http://themeforest.net/item/creativeclean-simple-creative-template/122438
> I'm not completely sure about the legal stuff though, as if we plan to
> include it in the web console or manual, it seems to imply some
> restrictions on downstream users, so we'd have to be very careful
> about that.  It should be ok for just the web site, but I think having
> a consistent theme would be better.
>
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:21, Lars Heinemann <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Gert,
>>
>> I like your mockup and it will serve well as foundation for further 
>> enhancements.
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Lars
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>>
>> Lars Heinemann
>> FuseSource
>> Email: [email protected]
>> Web: http://www.fusesource.com
>> Blog: http://lhein.blogspot.com
>> Twitter: lhein77
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 29.06.2011 um 10:16 schrieb Gert Vanthienen:
>>
>>> L.S.,
>>>
>>>
>>> About the content: in my mind, most of the content we have, belongs in
>>> the documentation project.  It's only the generic information about
>>> the mailing lists, source code locations, jira, community, ... that
>>> has to go into the website project.  That's about the distinction I
>>> tried to make when creating the website project, so most of the
>>> website contents should be there but it sure needs updating and a bit
>>> of restructuring to get it organized.
>>>
>>> For the documentation, I would suggest we:
>>> 1. keep the information in the wiki around as the documentation for
>>> ServiceMix 3.x (we decided to only do one more release of that a while
>>> ago, so there's no point in investing a lot of time porting the
>>> information)
>>> 2. for the time being, focus on the documentation for ServiceMix 4 - I
>>> think the quick start and camel guide are a good start, but we need to
>>> flesh things out to get a good documentation base for the 4.x series
>>> which we will probably be maintaining for a while
>>> 3. as soon as we start committing any code for ServiceMix 5, make sure
>>> to document everything right away - I think that's just a habit we
>>> have to grow and I don't mind being the PITA that asks people to add
>>> the docs after every commit, but I really think it's the only way to
>>> ensure that the documentation does not get behind so much that it
>>> needs a lot of work to fill the gap (as we have now with ServiceMix
>>> 4.x)
>>>
>>> About the website design, ideally I think we would to implement a new
>>> design together with the new contents and make sure we have something
>>> to show off.  While I like both Chris' and Lukasz' designs, they are
>>> pretty sophisticated and we never got around to actually translating
>>> that into a template that's easy enough to tweak and implement by
>>> simple developers (like non-web-designers as myself). BTW, we do have
>>> the PSD file for Lukasz' mockup attached to
>>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/SMX4-731, but there's not HTML
>>> version for that yet.
>>>
>>> That's why I created a very simple HTML page and CSS myself in
>>> http://servicemix.apache.org/staging/mockup/index.html (which is
>>> already in the website codebase) - I agree it does not look half as
>>> sophisticated as the other two suggestions, but it still keeps the
>>> overall layout of those two and at least it has the virtue of being
>>> very simple HTML and CSS we can easily work with and include in the
>>> documentation project as well.  Perhaps we can start with something
>>> like this and if anyone fancies adding a bit more eye candy to it,
>>> that would be great obviously!
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Gert Vanthienen
>>> ------------------------
>>> FuseSource
>>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>>> Blog: http://gertvanthienen.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 9:57 AM, Guillaume Nodet <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Moving to a separate thread.
>>>>
>>>> I've sent an email to Lukasz asking for the sources of the web site.
>>>>
>>>> On nightly builds, I agree this would be a good idea to have automated
>>>> deployment of the web site.  If hudson can be leveraged for that, it
>>>> would be awesome.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 09:38, Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I like the splatch website design also.
>>>>>
>>>>> As we discussed for Karaf, moving the SMX website to use scalate requires
>>>>> that we have a "nightly" deployment of the website to quickly update the
>>>>> news section, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>> JB
>>>>>
>>>>> On 06/29/2011 09:33 AM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we do the same as Karaf, the scalate based web site mostly consist
>>>>>> in non technical docs (downloads, community, irc, forums, etc...) and
>>>>>> all the technical docs are in versioned manuals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ServiceMix has a particularity though because we have several major
>>>>>> versions which are really different, so that may affect a bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, I really like the one splatch, so if he can give us the core
>>>>>> images used in that web page, I'm sure we can make it work with the
>>>>>> site Gert has worked on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 08:15, Lars Heinemann<[email protected]>  wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, I agree that we first should go for the content. But it's a bit
>>>>>>> wired as if we don't have so many sub pages as
>>>>>>> in the current page then we will probably do content for pages which 
>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>> not be used or in a different form.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We should just have some basic idea how the sitemap will look like 
>>>>>>> before
>>>>>>> flooding in the content.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>> Lars
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lars Heinemann
>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>>>>> Web: http://www.fusesource.com
>>>>>>> Blog: http://lhein.blogspot.com
>>>>>>> Twitter: lhein77
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Am 29.06.2011 um 08:03 schrieb Guillaume Nodet:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't have any problems with changing the design, but I just think
>>>>>>>> that the content is more important than the color
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 07:39, Lars Heinemann<[email protected]>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Regarding the webpage design...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As already stated I don't like the design of the webpage. It seems to
>>>>>>>>> be a duplicate of the Karaf homepage
>>>>>>>>> and I can't see that the page is now more easy and clean as we once
>>>>>>>>> intended to do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, if I can slightly object, it's kinda the opposite, as Karaf has
>>>>>>>> simply reused the ServiceMix design ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'd like to point you to the following design proposals which I think
>>>>>>>>> are really awesome looking...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/ccustine/5390898666/sizes/l/    (from
>>>>>>>>> ccustine)
>>>>>>>>> http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/1718/servicemix46.jpg    (from
>>>>>>>>> splatch)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Shouldn't we go for something like this? Those designs are awesome
>>>>>>>>> looking and have a very clear and simple navigation concept.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Both looks really good to me, but before switching the css, we need to
>>>>>>>> get the scalate stuff to work and the content up to date, so that we
>>>>>>>> can switch to that new stuff asap.
>>>>>>>> Then, we can propose changes on the pure css stuff (colors, images,
>>>>>>>> icons etc...) based on the new website.  Once we have the
>>>>>>>> infrastructure in place, we can easily branch or experiment with css
>>>>>>>> patches.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Wdyt?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>>> Lars
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Lars Heinemann
>>>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>>>> Email: [email protected]
>>>>>>>>> Web: http://www.fusesource.com
>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://lhein.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>>> Twitter: lhein77
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Am 29.06.2011 um 01:39 schrieb Gert Vanthienen:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Guillaume,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All this seems to make a lot of sense to me - let's drop the bits 
>>>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>>>> don't bring any value (any more) and try to add value to the project
>>>>>>>>>> by focusing on providing these container-level services to 
>>>>>>>>>> integration
>>>>>>>>>> projects.  I also like the idea for creating both a Tomcat and a 
>>>>>>>>>> Karaf
>>>>>>>>>> based distribution.  That way, people can start with the more 
>>>>>>>>>> familiar
>>>>>>>>>> WAR deployment in a simple Tomcat container and, as they need the 
>>>>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>>>>> advanced features, gently migrate to the full OSGi-goodness of the
>>>>>>>>>> Karaf based distribution.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For the website, I took an initial stab at migrating the relevant 
>>>>>>>>>> bits
>>>>>>>>>> of existing website contents to a Scalate/Maven-based project at
>>>>>>>>>> https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/servicemix/website and pushed an
>>>>>>>>>> initial copy of the result out to
>>>>>>>>>> http://servicemix.apache.org/staging/ so we can start adding content
>>>>>>>>>> again there until we're happy enough with the result to promote this
>>>>>>>>>> to become the home page.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Information about the current location/build/... of the documentation
>>>>>>>>>> project can be found at
>>>>>>>>>> http://servicemix.apache.org/documentation-project.html - we have a
>>>>>>>>>> bit of content for ServiceMix 4.x in there already but it still needs
>>>>>>>>>> quite some work.  For ServiceMix 5.x, we should probably grow the
>>>>>>>>>> habit of documenting every single feature the moment we add it to the
>>>>>>>>>> codebase right from the start so we can build the documentation right
>>>>>>>>>> along with the actual code.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Gert Vanthienen
>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>>>>> Web: http://fusesource.com
>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://gertvanthienen.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 5:54 PM, Guillaume Nodet<[email protected]>
>>>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Last week, I've been discussing with a few committers about the
>>>>>>>>>>> ServiceMix roadmap.
>>>>>>>>>>> So I'd like to communicate those thoughts to a wider audience.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> We've been discussing already that the value of ServiceMix (which 
>>>>>>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>>>> the JBI layer in ServiceMix 3
>>>>>>>>>>> and the container side in ServiceMix 4) has moved mostly to Camel 
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>> Karaf respectively.  The remainining
>>>>>>>>>>> bits are mostly the NMR.  However, the value of the NMR is not in 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> NMR itself, but rather the NMR was
>>>>>>>>>>> supposed to enable various container-level features.  However, we
>>>>>>>>>>> haven't really built those features so
>>>>>>>>>>> that the *real* value of the NMR is not that high currently.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> So, what we've been discussing is to focus on that added value in a
>>>>>>>>>>> more transparent way by tweaking
>>>>>>>>>>> Camel a bit to support global interceptors, so that one could deploy
>>>>>>>>>>> the real routes without having to
>>>>>>>>>>> force the use of a specific transport such as the current NMR.  This
>>>>>>>>>>> way, a user could test / develop
>>>>>>>>>>> the Camel routes or take existing Camel routes and deploy them in
>>>>>>>>>>> ServiceMix, thereby transparently
>>>>>>>>>>> enabling a bunch of useful features.  We've been thinking about
>>>>>>>>>>> adding
>>>>>>>>>>> message tracing / timing / auditing,
>>>>>>>>>>> sending test messages, security checks, viewing flows, persistent
>>>>>>>>>>> modification of camel
>>>>>>>>>>> routes, camel route versioning, etc...  That need to be coupled with
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> web console similar to the
>>>>>>>>>>> Camel / ActiveMQ web consoles, to actually display all the data to
>>>>>>>>>>> provide useful information for monitoring
>>>>>>>>>>> Camel routes and help diagnosing problems in production for example.
>>>>>>>>>>> There's really nothing magically new
>>>>>>>>>>> here and some of those features were actually part of ServiceMix 3,
>>>>>>>>>>> but without much focus on those and
>>>>>>>>>>> they have always kept a bit on the side.  The idea is really to make
>>>>>>>>>>> ServiceMix the best possible container
>>>>>>>>>>> for deploying Camel based integration.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Additional things that could be pushed inside ServiceMix 5 would be 
>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>> Tomcat based container deployment
>>>>>>>>>>> option (for those that don't need OSGi), a new manual similar to 
>>>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>>>>>> we have in Karaf (maybe reusing
>>>>>>>>>>> parts of it).  We'd also need a new website (without the technical
>>>>>>>>>>> doc, as we have for Karaf I think).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On the maintenance of the JBI components and NMR/JBI layer, I think
>>>>>>>>>>> we
>>>>>>>>>>> should keep them in smx4.
>>>>>>>>>>> People wanting to deploy those could easily add a pointer to the
>>>>>>>>>>> servicemix 4 features descriptors and
>>>>>>>>>>> deploy the needed features.  So we could officially deprecate those
>>>>>>>>>>> and tell users they won't be
>>>>>>>>>>> available in smx5.    This also means that there's really not much 
>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>> reuse from smx4, so smx5 would
>>>>>>>>>>> have its own new and dedicated svn area.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> FWIW, I plan to devote a big chunk of my time on ServiceMix 5 in the
>>>>>>>>>>> coming months, so those are not
>>>>>>>>>>> faithful wishes, but really something I want to start implementing
>>>>>>>>>>> asap.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Feedback welcomed!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>> Open Source SOA
>>>>>>>>>>> http://fusesource.com
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>>>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>>>>> Open Source SOA
>>>>>>>> http://fusesource.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> ------------------------
>>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>>> ------------------------
>>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>>> ------------------------
>>>> Open Source SOA
>>>> http://fusesource.com
>>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
> ------------------------
> Open Source SOA
> http://fusesource.com
>

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