Hi Yonglun Thanks for the feedback quickly. I would give the space to the community for working this out.
On 2022/03/19 09:47:22 Zhang Yonglun wrote: > Hi, > > Thanks to Sheng, Willem and Liang for the guidance. > > I understand Sheng's concern about the agent codes, it's also our > concern. So there has been close discussion within the ShenYu > community and with our mentors on this matter. > > Thanks to Willem for updating the conclusions of ALC Shenzhen team > meeting about this topic. This conclusion will be used as the guide > for the ShenYu community to practice. > > At ShenYu committers online meeting [1] yesterday, we have focused on > these issues. During the meeting, we reached an agreed conclusion on > positive improvements. These conclusions follow the Apache way and > `Community Over Codes` consensus, such as `upstream first`, `sharing > and linking projects together`. > > The conclusions of the discussion are as follows: > > 1. Enhance learning the Apache way and how ASF works. > > * PPMC and committers should review the near future community > documentations pull requests according to the ASF policy. By this way, > we can enhance learning the Apache way and how ASF works. > * Pay careful attention to what our mentors and IPMC say on the > mailing list, we can learn the Apache way from their suggestions. > > 2. Proper handling of the shenyu-agent module. > > * Based on the guidance of the IPMC member and our mentors, and the > understanding of PPMC members, we should remove or redesign the > shenyu-agent module. > * Agree on removing the shenyu-agent module. > * Encourage developers to provide plugins to upstream like > Skywalking, ZipKin and Opentelemetry to implement the tracing > features. > > 3. Proper handling of the community documentations. > > * Several volunteers include PPMC, committer and contributor would > like to rewrite the community documentations. > * Make sure do not merge the pull request befor PPMC reviews the > documentations. > > Thanks to Sheng's reminder about PPMC should make decision for the > documentations. PPMC, committers and contributors will be involved in > the writing of the documentations. PPMC will work closely with the > committers and contributors and the final version of the > documentations will be decided and merged by PPMC. > > Thanks to Liang's attention to ShenYu community and the reminder of > `Community Over Codes`. As stated in the meeting minutes above, ShenYu > community is actively working on the documentations and codes, > encouraging developers to provide plugins to upstream to linking > projects together. We appreciate your guidance to the ShenYu community > from the > perspective of ASF member. > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/ow8o0hkym6p72gsoxxk0pyk895yk4wzv > > -- > > Zhang Yonglun > Apache ShenYu (Incubating) > Apache ShardingSphere > > Sheng Wu <[email protected]> 于2022年3月19日周六 09:23写道： > > > > Hi > > > > I would like to say great to see you are beginning to re-words these. > > > > > After discussing with our mentors, we decided to rewrite these > > > documentations. I have started a new thread [1] to call for volunteers > > > > Notice, PMC should take this responsibility, I don't mean PMC member is not > > volunteer, just want to highlight, this should be a community decision. > > > > > For shenyu-agent codes, we added license and notice of ShardingSphere > > > [8] first. The further handling of these codes is still under > > > discussion with our mentors. > > > > Considering you mentioned this, you should know > > I have talked with Liang from ShardingSphere directly about this agent, and > > I have noticed this agent(from ShardingSphere to Shenyu) for a very long > > time(2 years at least). > > This agent clearly has referred to how SkyWalking's agent works. From how > > plugins work to even some codes and class names(such as core interceptors) > > are the same logically. I am not going to pursue whether there was/is a > > code copy behavior from SkyWalking, and believe none of SkyWalking PMC > > will, but the Shenyu community should know the risk. If someone audits your > > codes, and SkyWalking PMC received reports, we have to respond. > > > > Besides the codes, from a tech perspective, I shared the same idea with > > ShardingSphere, as generally, this agent was from when Yu Xiao worked(paid > > work) for ShardingSphere. The agent tech should not be used in this way, > > you have controlled all your source codes, integrate these APIs directly in > > the kernel to report telemetry(or others) definitely make the codes better > > and have less risk when you need other agents. Shenyu has not been widely > > used yet, for now, I believe one day when Shenyu and SkyWalking come > > across, we highly likely could receive agent-conflict reports, and a > > heads-up warning, SkyWalking would only recommend removing Shenyu's native > > agent, if they want to SkyWalking, because of the above history. > > > > ____ > > > > As a summary of the above, no matter from doc and code perspective, you > > should deeply know, even referring(including a copy) to other project > > codes(in or out of ASF) should be a very serious and have-to-be-done thing. > > In the open-source, sharing and linking projects together are the key > > points, and this is why OSS is powerful, not just because you have N > > features, you can't cover all. No matter what you think you have to copy, > > discuss with the original team, follow their recommendations. > > **License requirement is the lowest requirement**, you could win in a > > licensing fight as APLv2/MIT licenses are so easy to follow, they can't > > query you, but lost friends in a larger community. > > ASF's `Community Over Codes` is said again and again by everyone and every > > time when you share the project, but try to understand it, people in your > > and other communities are what matter. > > > > > > On 2022/03/18 12:37:05 Zhang Yonglun wrote: > > > Hi Sheng, > > > > > > We appreciate your guidance to the ShenYu community from the > > > perspective of IPMC. > > > > > > After discussing with our mentors, we decided to rewrite these > > > documentations. I have started a new thread [1] to call for volunteers > > > to rewrite the documentations base on how ShenYu as a community is > > > running and their own understanding of the Apache way. Our mentor > > > Willem also provided detailed guidance on documentations in there. We > > > will proceed very carefully to ensure the new documentations meet > > > expectations by several actions: > > > > > > 1. The ASF offical [2][3][4][5][6][7] documentations should be the > > > main reference for our community documentations. I suggest the > > > volunteers write the documentations in this way, it will be better for > > > us to understand the Apache way. > > > 2. Call for our contributors to help review the new documentations. > > > This action will go a long way in helping us understand how ASF works, > > > and is a good opportunity to learn the Apache way. We'll take > > > advantage of the documentations to further guide our practice. > > > 3. Make sure don't copy graphs from any documents, we need to read and > > > understand those words first. Then we can write with our own words. > > > > > > For shenyu-agent codes, we added license and notice of ShardingSphere > > > [8] first. The further handling of these codes is still under > > > discussion with our mentors. We also would like to bring this issue to > > > an online community meeting for discussion. The eventual possibilities > > > include removing or redesigning these codes. > > > > > > For learning the Apache way and how ASF works, our mentors gave a lot > > > of advice, and we will enhance our learning from now. Thanks again so > > > much for helping us build a better community! > > > > > > > > > [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/xh167o3r449lvf82hn4lnkqgmz6rbmr9 > > > [2] How it works: https://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html > > > [3] Community guide：https://community.apache.org/about/ > > > [4] Consensus > > > building：https://community.apache.org/committers/consensusBuilding.html > > > [5] Code of conduct: > > > https://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html > > > [6] Contributor guide: https://community.apache.org/newcomers/ > > > [7] Committer guide: https://community.apache.org/committers/ > > > [8] https://lists.apache.org/thread/g3md34hsoh7gc0ojjlmt10qnqtln9jjp > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Zhang Yonglun > > > Apache ShenYu (Incubating) > > > Apache ShardingSphere > > > > > > Sheng Wu <[email protected]> 于2022年3月18日周五 11:03写道： > > > > > > > > Hi Shenyu community > > > > > > > > I noticed this thread, from the incubator level discussion. > > > > > > > > The key point of incubating a new project is to teach them to > > > > understand and follow the Apache Way and Culture. > > > > > > > > The document is a reflection of your understanding, right now, there > > > > are a lot of documents copying from another TLP(no matter > > > > ShardingSphere is involved or not). Then it could make the incubator > > > > concerned, whether this community has been learning the Apache way, or > > > > just simply copy from there. > > > > > > > > I am not sure whether your mentors told you, don't copy things from a > > > > TLP, including docs, codes, and ways to work, because every TLS has > > > > their PMC to make the decision, and decisions were made according to > > > > the history of the project. You could learn from their PMC members as > > > > they would share with you the context of their principles. > > > > > > > > I knew ShardingSphere PMC has raised this from the License perspective, > > > > but I am not focusing on the incubating process. > > > > > > > > So, I hope you(Shenyu community) could write the whole thing on your > > > > own based on how Shenyu as a community is running, and preferences from > > > > your own understanding of the Apache way. > > > > > > > > Sheng Wu > > > > Incubator PMC > > > > > > > > On 2022/03/17 10:01:27 Zhang Yonglun wrote: > > > > > Hi Liang, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your feedback. > > > > > > > > > > I made fixes [1][2][3] for the docs you pointed out which don't have a > > > > > license listed. > > > > > > > > > > These fixes include adding license and notice of ShardingSphere, and > > > > > adding a note referencing ShardingSphere to the documentation content. > > > > > > > > > > For the agent module, as you mentioned I have fixed it yesterday [4]. > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu-website/pull/485 > > > > > [2] https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu-website/pull/486 > > > > > [3] https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu-website/pull/487 > > > > > [4] https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu/pull/3045 > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > > Zhang Yonglun > > > > > Apache ShenYu (Incubating) > > > > > Apache ShardingSphere > > > > > > > > > > [email protected] <[email protected]> 于2022年3月17日周四 11:07写道： > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear ShenYu community, > > > > > > > > > > > > I noticed that ShenYu agent code and community documentation were > > > > > > copied > > > > > > directly from ShardingSphere. > > > > > > > > > > > > For agent module issue, ShenYu code[1] is almost same as > > > > > > ShardingSphere > > > > > > code[2]. > > > > > > I saw your PR[3], which added ShardingSphere copyright to the > > > > > > LICENSE and > > > > > > NITICE file yesterday. > > > > > > But as an incubator project, I suggest that the team design and code > > > > > > according to your own original and independent ideas. > > > > > > If you think the agent module is suitable for ShenYu, copy and > > > > > > minor rewrite is not good enough, it is best to import it from > > > > > > ShardingSphere as a library; If the agent module of ShardingSphere > > > > > > is not > > > > > > good enough, we can discuss how to improve it in > > > > > > [email protected] or GitHub issue list. > > > > > > For open source way, contribute back to upstream maybe the best > > > > > > ,especially > > > > > > in incubator project, understanding and practicing to Apache way is > > > > > > import. > > > > > > > > > > > > For the community documentation issue, it is unnecessary copy from > > > > > > ShardingSphere, please write your own documentation and follow them > > > > > > as your > > > > > > own community way. > > > > > > I saw the PR[4] and [5] rewrite the part of documentation from > > > > > > ShardingSphere. The PR[4] had merged half year ago, which means > > > > > > that ShenYu > > > > > > use ShardingSphere's documentation early. > > > > > > However, there are still many documents copied directly from > > > > > > ShardingSphere. Please fix them as well. > > > > > > The documentation which copied from ShardingSphere are: > > > > > > Shenyu [6] copied from ShardingSphere [7] > > > > > > Shenyu [8] copied from ShardingSphere [9] > > > > > > Shenyu [10] copied from ShardingSphere [11] > > > > > > Shenyu [12] copied from ShardingSphere [13] > > > > > > Shenyu [14] copied from ShardingSphere [15] > > > > > > Shenyu [16] copied from ShardingSphere [17] > > > > > > Shenyu [18] copied from ShardingSphere [19] > > > > > > Shenyu [20] copied from ShardingSphere [21] > > > > > > Shenyu [22] copied from ShardingSphere [23] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu/tree/master/shenyu-agent > > > > > > [2] > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/shardingsphere/tree/master/shardingsphere-agent > > > > > > [3] https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu/pull/3045 > > > > > > [4] > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu-website/commit/c6f1971d412b267a06dde973df4f6892b6685c1a > > > > > > [5] > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-shenyu-website/commit/365c1edb17d75e3d0dbc11633dc8234f75a3bea4 > > > > > > [6] https://shenyu.apache.org/community/contributor > > > > > > [7] > > > > > > https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/en/contribute/contributor/ > > > > > > [8] https://shenyu.apache.org/community/release-guide > > > > > > [9] > > > > > > https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/en/contribute/release/ > > > > > > [10] https://shenyu.apache.org/community/vote-committer > > > > > > [11] https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/en/contribute/vote/ > > > > > > [12] https://shenyu.apache.org/community/two-fa > > > > > > [13] https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/en/contribute/2fa/ > > > > > > [14] https://shenyu.apache.org/zh/community/subscribe-email > > > > > > [15] > > > > > > https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/cn/contribute/subscribe/ > > > > > > [16] https://shenyu.apache.org/zh/community/contributor > > > > > > [17] > > > > > > https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/cn/contribute/contributor/ > > > > > > [18] https://shenyu.apache.org/zh/community/release-guide > > > > > > [19] > > > > > > https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/cn/contribute/release/ > > > > > > [20] https://shenyu.apache.org/zh/community/vote-committer > > > > > > [21] https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/cn/contribute/vote/ > > > > > > [22] https://shenyu.apache.org/zh/community/two-fa > > > > > > [23] https://shardingsphere.apache.org/community/cn/contribute/2fa/ > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > Sincerely, > > > > > > Liang Zhang (John) > > > > > > Apache ShardingSphere > > > > > > > > >
