I’ll organize a hackathon. A friend wants to finish the implementation of Lucian modularity for GraphFrames. I’ll fix some GraphX bugs at it.
I did just blog all about the motif matching in GraphFrames: https://blog.graphlet.ai/financial-crime-and-corruption-network-motifs-4cf2e8e10eb5 Russ On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 5:38 PM Holden Karau <holden.ka...@gmail.com> wrote: > So this discuss thread and the vote thread to deprecate to leave the > option of removing it during 4.X are probably the highest profile it’s been > in years. > > In the past for parts of Spark I’ve cared about I’ve organized virtual > meetings to co-ordinate work — if your connected with some of the > Spark+Graph community reaching out to find others and organizing a meeting > could be a way to raise the profile a bit? Maybe organize a virtual > hackathon (I’m meaning to try this for some other things so happy to share > what I learn from doing that)? > > Twitter: https://twitter.com/holdenkarau > Fight Health Insurance: https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/ > <https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/?q=hk_email> > Books (Learning Spark, High Performance Spark, etc.): > https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 <https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9> > YouTube Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau > Pronouns: she/her > > > On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 5:02 PM Russell Jurney <russell.jur...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I’ll look for a bug to fix. If GraphX is outside of Spark, Spark would >> tend to break GraphFrames and it will be burdensome on an external project >> to keep up. Graph computing on Spark is implrtant to a lot of people, is >> there a way to raise visibility here? >> >> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 4:24 PM Holden Karau <holden.ka...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> There are no specific tickets associated with the lack of maintaince or >>> this as the component has not been maintained for a sufficiently long time. >>> If your interested in taking it on that’s wonderful, probably starting with >>> fixing some bugs could be a great place to start and figure out if it’s >>> something you want to do long term. >>> >>> I would recommend making a first bug fix in a actively maintained area >>> of Spark to get to >>> Know some reviewers since there is not anyone tracking the GraphX PRs. >>> >>> As a note I don’t think GraphX is required for Graph Frames long term, >>> so another option would be to talk to the GraphFrames folks and move the >>> GraphX code over to it. >>> >>> Ideally we’d have someone willing to act as a mentor or guide but so far >>> we have no volunteers (especially no one familiar with the graph X code). >>> >>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/holdenkarau >>> Fight Health Insurance: https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/ >>> <https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/?q=hk_email> >>> Books (Learning Spark, High Performance Spark, etc.): >>> https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 <https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9> >>> YouTube Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau >>> Pronouns: she/her >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 3:25 PM Russell Jurney <russell.jur...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I volunteer to maintain GraphX to keep GraphFrames a viable project. I >>>> don’t have a clear view on whether it works with Spark 4 or if it needs >>>> updates? I don’t have Spark commits but I’m a committer on Apache DataFu >>>> and mentored the Spark feature for it. >>>> >>>> Can someone tell me what is involved? Point me at a ticket? >>>> >>>> Russell >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 7, 2024 at 12:11 AM Erik Eklund <eekl...@definitivehc.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> We rely on GraphX for an important component of our product. And we >>>>> really want it to stay a typed interface. Please keep GraphX. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Erik >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *From: *Holden Karau <holden.ka...@gmail.com> >>>>> *Date: *Sunday, October 6, 2024 at 06:22 >>>>> *To: *Ángel <angel.alvarez.pas...@gmail.com> >>>>> *Cc: *Russell Jurney <russell.jur...@gmail.com>, Mich Talebzadeh < >>>>> mich.talebza...@gmail.com>, Spark dev list <dev@spark.apache.org>, >>>>> user @spark <u...@spark.apache.org> >>>>> *Subject: *Re: [DISCUSS] Deprecate GraphX OR Find new maintainers >>>>> interested in GraphX OR leave it as is? >>>>> >>>>> So are there companies using it? And are they willing to contribute to >>>>> maintaining it? >>>>> >>>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/holdenkarau >>>>> >>>>> Fight Health Insurance: https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/ >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.fighthealthinsurance.com%2f%3fq%3dhk_email&c=E,1,OT9ylxCx5xRNCToPSzu0VEvefs4uts16fTBydH2NiLHMGEwLjrEXgkhU8W-Ai6xD8VDMyWea44GBMOEecMNdapaZKZbBTrZpquOBKi6YRlqu-FVAzji6-w,,&typo=1> >>>>> >>>>> Books (Learning Spark, High Performance Spark, etc.): >>>>> https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2famzn.to%2f2MaRAG9&c=E,1,h0ccgHctUPRY4zAN_qZ-qdBgLDpQLtm7KaOL4u12U4PR7PeJ4MUBOS8bbD7CNssUIMqRMvY_pOqbh7PfLY0lRpQh9mfqBC0KnSHBZzxxSJJr-55r5kv6YjYwrA,,&typo=1> >>>>> >>>>> YouTube Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau >>>>> >>>>> Pronouns: she/her >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 9:17 PM Ángel <angel.alvarez.pas...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> That would definitely affect companies using GraphX, but at least >>>>> they’d have the choice to migrate their code. >>>>> >>>>> I think that’s probably the way to go. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> El dom, 6 oct 2024 a las 6:09, Holden Karau (<holden.ka...@gmail.com>) >>>>> escribió: >>>>> >>>>> So removing GraphX from Spark would not prevent GraphFrames from >>>>> continuing, they could pick up the GraphX source and incorporate it into >>>>> their project. >>>>> >>>>> Twitter: https://twitter.com/holdenkarau >>>>> >>>>> Fight Health Insurance: https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/ >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.fighthealthinsurance.com%2f%3fq%3dhk_email&c=E,1,9xMMQlY7gtmkqxT0NTmS8KMg4wOUjw0PWKM-oepAYAkE-SiM5pyXCb80AuRZYJ4zMIedVlwVMAKi_eh52Hof0LsteXx2eIslnsDBdmVeuocpILpneg,,&typo=1> >>>>> >>>>> Books (Learning Spark, High Performance Spark, etc.): >>>>> https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2famzn.to%2f2MaRAG9&c=E,1,kbGbMBRMidAYi0aqUmj949vRahpEjVzSgJv_YYtO5EteSXZy4RrMYXJU48mN2CyS5sdovsgiFAAiBLnyQ29gCCn8xbTrEJmfIhjtH7tD4N31VUoLtQ,,&typo=1> >>>>> >>>>> YouTube Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau >>>>> >>>>> Pronouns: she/her >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 5:22 PM Russell Jurney < >>>>> russell.jur...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> A lot of people like me use GraphFrames for its connected components >>>>> implementation and its motif matching feature. I am willing to work on it >>>>> to keep it alive. They did a 0.8.3 release not too long ago. Please keep >>>>> GraphX alive. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Oct 5, 2024 at 3:44 PM Mich Talebzadeh < >>>>> mich.talebza...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I added the user list as they may have vested interest here and and >>>>> hopefully can contribute >>>>> >>>>> Few suggestions: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Data-Driven Decision Making: Return to the core metrics—analyze >>>>> usage trends, performance benchmarks, and the actual impact on >>>>> businesses >>>>> that rely on GraphX. Objectivity can be restored by letting data speak >>>>> louder than opinions so to speak. >>>>> 2. Broaden the Discussion: Engage more stakeholders from diverse >>>>> backgrounds (especially spark users) to bring in new perspectives and >>>>> counterbalance the more vocal but potentially narrow interests of core >>>>> maintainers or open-source contributors. >>>>> 3. Define Clear Criteria for Decision Making: Agree on a set of >>>>> objective criteria by which the project’s future will be judged. These >>>>> could include market demand, contribution levels, maintenance costs, >>>>> alternative solutions, and alignment with the overall Spark ecosystem >>>>> goals. Some have already been covered. >>>>> 4. Timely Conclusion of Discussions: Set a timeline for making a >>>>> decision. Long, open-ended discussions tend to lose focus. Putting >>>>> deadlines forces participants to focus on key issues and prevents >>>>> endless >>>>> debates. >>>>> 5. Borrowing from commercial settings, it is often necessary for a >>>>> strong leadership team to step in and make the final decision after >>>>> considering the input. When the objectivity of discussions starts to >>>>> wane, >>>>> leadership needs to cut through the round discussions and steer towards >>>>> action based on business and technical realities. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> HTH >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mich Talebzadeh, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Architect | Data Engineer | Data Science | Financial Crime >>>>> >>>>> PhD <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy> Imperial >>>>> College London <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_College_London> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> London, United Kingdom >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> [image: Image removed by sender.] view my Linkedin profile >>>>> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mich-talebzadeh-ph-d-5205b2/> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://en.everybodywiki.com/Mich_Talebzadeh >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fen.everybodywiki.com%2fMich_Talebzadeh&c=E,1,U1JaGVMkko53HkJO5fwmkIXfziTOWL3K1CkAeHwFG55TbZQUd5xVNLGpLt2o0ytujE6zaLpqU2GWCZqHSbo3SU4Wh9Rl8NG4bWPbFWUwyw,,&typo=1> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Disclaimer:* The information provided is correct to the best of my >>>>> knowledge but of course cannot be guaranteed . It is essential to note >>>>> that, as with any advice, quote "one test result is worth one-thousand >>>>> expert opinions (Werner >>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun>Von Braun >>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun>)". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 at 06:26, Ángel <angel.alvarez.pas...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I completely agree with everyone here. I don’t think the issue is >>>>> deprecating it; to me, the problem lies in not providing a new and better >>>>> solution for handling graphs in Spark. In the past, I used GraphX via >>>>> GraphFrames for record linkage, and I found it both useful and effective. >>>>> Is there any discussion about a potential replacement? >>>>> >>>>> I’d be willing to help maintain GraphX, though I don’t have previous >>>>> experience with maintaining open-source projects. All I can promise is >>>>> good >>>>> intentions, willingness to learn and lots of energy and passion. Is that >>>>> enough? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Btw, what's your take on this? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> · *GraphX* will be deprecated in favor of a new graphing >>>>> component, SparkGraph, based on Cypher >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fneo4j.com%2fdeveloper%2fcypher-query-language%2f&c=E,1,5sP_K0oxQDLYIfWhFPwgNEmTuXMR7tvCjLLcf_ZBAv7oIBySxARy9TyrqNkmZKfXwrIDrhe6TVBCUun2luRV_mAbSD4rooD9YRt5GYYgbHbBUYerg1mpA4Oe6eo,&typo=1>, >>>>> a much richer graph language than previously offered by GraphX. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://cloud.google.com/blog/products/data-analytics/introducing-spark-3-and-hadoop-3-on-dataproc-image-version-2-0 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> El sáb, 5 oct 2024 a las 2:17, Mark Hamstra (<markhams...@gmail.com>) >>>>> escribió: >>>>> >>>>> As I wrote to Holden privately, I might well change my vote to be in >>>>> favor of a deprecation label combined with some effective means of >>>>> communicating that this doesn't mean the end for GraphX if interested >>>>> contributors come forward to rescue it. I don't like either the idea >>>>> of keeping unmaintained code and public APIs around (especially if >>>>> there are problems with them) or the idea of removing Spark >>>>> functionality just because no one has contributed to it for a while. A >>>>> naked deprecation label feels somewhat drastic and pre-emptive to me. >>>>> I don't expect that GraphX will be the last part of Spark to run the >>>>> risk of death through neglect, and I think we need an effective means >>>>> of encouraging resuscitation that a deprecation label on its own does >>>>> not provide. On the other hand, if no one really is willing to come to >>>>> the aid of GraphX or other neglected functionality given adequate >>>>> warning of possible removal, I'm not then opposed to the usual >>>>> deprecation and removal process. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 4:10 PM Sean Owen <sro...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > This is a reasonable discussion, but maybe the more practical point >>>>> is: are you sure you want to block this unilaterally? This effectively >>>>> makes a decision that GraphX cannot be removed for a long while. I'd >>>>> understand it more if we had an active maintainer and/or active user >>>>> proposing to veto, but my understanding is this is just a proposal to >>>>> block >>>>> this on behalf of some users, someone else who might do some work and >>>>> hasn't to date for some reason. Add to that the fact that the 'pro' >>>>> arguments all seem to be arguments for working on GraphFrames, and I find >>>>> this somewhat drastic. >>>>> > >>>>> > On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 5:23 PM Mark Hamstra <markhams...@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> "You can't say nothing is removable until there are no users." >>>>> >> >>>>> >> That is not what I am saying. Rather, I am countering what others >>>>> seem >>>>> >> to be suggesting: There are no users and no interest, therefore we >>>>> can >>>>> >> and should deprecate. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 3:10 PM Sean Owen <sro...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > I could flip this argument around. More strongly, not being >>>>> deprecated means "won't be removed" and likewise implies support and >>>>> development. I don't think either of the latter have been true for years. >>>>> What suggests this will change? A todo list is not going to do anything, >>>>> IMHO. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > I'm also concerned about the cost of that, which I have observed. >>>>> GraphX PRs are almost certainly not going to be reviewed because of its >>>>> state. Deprecation both communicates that reality, and leaves an option >>>>> open, whereas not deprecating forecloses that option for a while. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > I don't think the question is, does anyone use it? because anyone >>>>> can continue to use it -- in Spark 3.x for sure, and in 4.x if not >>>>> removed. >>>>> >> > You can't say nothing is removable until there are no users. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > Also, why would GraphFrames not be the logical home of this going >>>>> forward anyway? which I think is the subtext. >>>>> >> > >>>>> >> > On Fri, Oct 4, 2024 at 4:56 PM Mark Hamstra < >>>>> markhams...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> I'm -1(*) because, while it technically means "might be removed >>>>> in the >>>>> >> >> future", I think developers and users are more prone to interpret >>>>> >> >> something being marked as deprecated as "very likely will be >>>>> removed >>>>> >> >> in the future, so don't depend on this or waste your time >>>>> contributing >>>>> >> >> to its further development." I don't think the latter is what we >>>>> want >>>>> >> >> just because something hasn't been updated meaningfully in a >>>>> while. >>>>> >> >> There have been How To articles for GraphX and Graph Frames >>>>> posted in >>>>> >> >> the not too distant past, and the Google Search trend shows a >>>>> pretty >>>>> >> >> steady level of interest, not a decline to zero, so I don't >>>>> think that >>>>> >> >> it is accurate to declare that there is no use or interest in >>>>> GraphX. >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> Unless retaining GraphX is imposing significant costs on >>>>> continuing >>>>> >> >> Spark development, I can't support deprecating GraphX. I can >>>>> support >>>>> >> >> encouraging GraphX and Graph Frames development through >>>>> something like >>>>> >> >> a To Do list or document of "What we'd like to see in the way of >>>>> >> >> further development of Spark's graph processing capabilities" -- >>>>> i.e., >>>>> >> >> things that encourage and support new contributions to address >>>>> any >>>>> >> >> shortcomings in Spark's graph processing, not things that >>>>> discourage >>>>> >> >> contributions and use in the way that I believe simply declaring >>>>> >> >> GraphX to be deprecated would. >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> On Sun, Sep 29, 2024 at 11:04 AM Holden Karau < >>>>> holden.ka...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> > Since we're getting close to cutting a 4.0 branch I'd like to >>>>> float the idea of officially deprecating Graph X. What that would mean (to >>>>> me) is we would update the docs to indicate that Graph X is deprecated and >>>>> it's APIs may be removed at anytime in the future. >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> > Alternatively, we could mark it as "unmaintained and in search >>>>> of maintainers" with a note that if no maintainers are found, we may >>>>> remove >>>>> it in a future minor version. >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> > Looking at the source graph X, I don't see any meaningful >>>>> active development going back over three years*. There is even a thread on >>>>> user@ from 2017 asking if graph X is maintained anymore, with no >>>>> response from the developers. >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> > Now I'm open to the idea that GraphX is stable and "works as >>>>> is" and simply doesn't require modifications but given the user thread I'm >>>>> a little concerned here about bringing this API with us into Spark 4 if we >>>>> don't have anyone signed up to maintain it. >>>>> >> >> > >>>>> >> >> > * Excluding globally applied changes >>>>> >> >> > -- >>>>> >> >> > Twitter: https://twitter.com/holdenkarau >>>>> >> >> > Fight Health Insurance: https://www.fighthealthinsurance.com/ >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.fighthealthinsurance.com%2f&c=E,1,9CeJ-bKUShnxOFZMc15zJG1qgfAB9rnSDzrmLzNiXb8qE0NXedNCoZy4HobcS7laOMqtvJzYjvDzjBld1FaCPZpOBW6cf1l_xaG4bEbjYoDpNG0zuQ9_K5TW&typo=1> >>>>> >> >> > Books (Learning Spark, High Performance Spark, etc.): >>>>> https://amzn.to/2MaRAG9 >>>>> <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2famzn.to%2f2MaRAG9&c=E,1,HJPBNbN3nfUZcb0-2OgveqIE5I5lvPSv-bOfRXIprFdSsGMlNq15o6rueLf2ZQRfytMu0-t3IxSjYou2uuPzUrSAqJ0LV42n2hG8rnkkpN4AA5w4mQZFTs4,&typo=1> >>>>> >> >> > YouTube Live Streams: https://www.youtube.com/user/holdenkarau >>>>> >> >> > Pronouns: she/her >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >> >> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >> >> To unsubscribe e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@spark.apache.org >>>>> >> >> >>>>> >>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe e-mail: dev-unsubscr...@spark.apache.org >>>>> >>>>>
