You can not write enterprise-class, secure, web-centric software with
PHP or RoR. The jury is still out on Python.
To gain the benefits of Java you would need to turn the PHP language
into - Java. So far, all projects that try to spit out bytecode via a
non-Java language have failed.
Writing enterprise-class software is difficult. There is no way around
it. The idea of "running PHP on Tomcat" should be taken out back and
executed Sopranos-style.
- Jim
----- Original Message ----- From: "Clifton Brooks"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Dev Tomcat" <dev@tomcat.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 9:22 AM
Subject: JRuby sucked up the bath water but left the baby behind.
Instead of binding Ruby to Java as in JRuby, or Python to Java as in
Java,
we have to find a way to compile Ruby on Rails applications, .py
files, and
PHPs into java servlets.
Although I adore programming in Java, most web developers simply find
it too
difficult to learn. They prefer PHP, RoR, and Python because all
three are
easier to learn and use without understanding. These languages don't
scale
as well and sacrifice run time efficiency for development time
efficiency.
The greatest advantages of servlets include:
1. The fact that they parse requests and generate responses through
method
calls instead of operating system processes or Fast CGI.
2. JNDI connectivity, particularly database connection pooling.
3. WORA and platform independence. (More a factor compared to .NET
than
the open source technologies.)
Sadly, JRuby and Jython are just interpreters written in Java and
they run
more slowly than the original binary interpreters.
If, instead of interpreting JRuby, PHP, and Jython, Tomcat, or some
extensions for it, could compile programs in these languages into java
servlets, then all of the advantages of the Java world will instantly
become
accessible to these popular languages. This suggestion is analogous
to the
.NET model which compiles any language into Windows only byte code.
Here,
any language compiles to platform independent, Java bytecode.
I love Java as a language, and almost always prefer to develop in it,
but
maybe it's greatest virtues aren't syntax and grammar. Most web
application
developers prefer PHP for reasons similar to those which make RoR
appealing. However, the technologies underneath these languages don't
measure up to the JVM and Tomcat or other Servlet containers. This
causes
all sorts of scalability problems, and it slows down the entire
internet.
When and how can we grant Java infrastructure to PHP developers?
When and
how can we compile PHP, Ruby, Python, and other web application
languages
into Servlets?
I dont know about the feasibility of this, some clever person can
figure it out, but there is definitely a market for PHP in tomcat.
The question comes up in the user groups. I imagine there are
practical challenges to that and the half cocked Servlet solutions out
there seem to be reinventing PHP in JNI, and doing a fairly bad job.
I was wondering if an extension to the Apache runtime would not be a
better way to go... APR + PHP_R kind of idea.
And then just look for some cool but simple interop. Like a servlet
can forward to PHP, and visa versa.
ie you can just use TC for your PHP, and you can get it integrated to
some degree with servlets.
... ie take two great technologies and bring them a little closer, not
a competitive product, just closer coop.
Make servlets and PHP better bed mates. The idea is that as Apache PHP
is developed further, TC gets the leverage, with a few perks.
"Damn thats a nice WIKI in PHP... I'm going to drop it into TC, add
the PHP_R engine to TC and forward requests to it from my servlet"...
something like that.
If PHP starts a session in this env, servlets see it as well... so
theres a little engine overlap, but otherwise Apache TC are 100% compat.
Bean passing with primitive types would add a creative dimension to it.
JRuby is cool, but I feel if you want to write a powerful site all in
j script... well, you get what you made.
I think that any leverage in that area will come from the JRE itself,
now that Sun is backing ruby, in the form of a JIT Script engine or
something like that in the JRE, so I think, not worth the investment.
The compilation of scripts to Java could first be attempted external
to TC... if they get it right, well its just a java class that TC can
use.
Servlet + PHP as bed mates == most internet solutions
Now that product like Netbeans are bringing in PHP editors, allowing
for hybrid solutions makes even more sense.
Just a thought ;)
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