Thanks, do we need to do the bom thing?

On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 3:53 PM Jonathan Gallimore
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Done:
> https://github.com/apache/tomee/commit/c63eacac4956c29454a0efc3e75e933dd4316b26
>
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 9:46 PM Jonathan Gallimore <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Thanks. That commit is incoming in about 1 minute.
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 9:43 PM Jonathan S. Fisher <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> No problemo. I'll cancel, do the pr two step, and rebuild
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 3:39 PM Jonathan Gallimore
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I was about to ask the same. Happy to push the update to the branch
> >> before
> >> > a release is kicked off.
> >> >
> >> > Jon
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, 27 Oct 2023, 21:23 Alex The Rocker, <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > Hi
> >> > >
> >> > > Before it's too late, can 8.0.16 release include (if not already done)
> >> > > the dependency update to ActiveMQ version fixing CVE-2023-46604 (which
> >> > > has High 8.8 score by
> >> > > https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2022-46604), as it's enabling
> >> > > remote code execution ?
> >> > >
> >> > > As a reminder, ActiveMQ is embedded in TomEE+.
> >> > >
> >> > > With TomEE+ 8.0.15, we have ActiveMQ artifacts at version 5.16.6, and
> >> > > according to
> >> > >
> >> https://activemq.apache.org/security-advisories.data/CVE-2023-46604-announcement.txt
> >> > > ,
> >> > > we need at least 5.16.7
> >> > >
> >> > > I hope this dependency update can make it in 8.0.16 before it's
> >> > > released (or maybe it's already in the about-to-be voted 8.0.16 ?)
> >> > >
> >> > > Thanks,
> >> > > Alex
> >> > >
> >> > > Le ven. 27 oct. 2023 à 18:15, Jonathan S. Fisher <[email protected]>
> >> a
> >> > > écrit :
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Alright, I have the build completed, signed, and uploaded the the
> >> > > > Nexus staging repository: orgapachetomee-1221
> >> > > >
> >> > > > What's next? I'm a little apprehensive to close out the staging repo
> >> > > > for fear of prematurely publishing a release...
> >> > > >
> >> > > > On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 9:42 AM Jonathan S. Fisher <
> >> [email protected]>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > I got another good build locally and CI is happy too. I'm going to
> >> > > > > stage the release!
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 9:27 AM Jonathan S. Fisher <
> >> [email protected]>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > Yep! I just logged that one and pushed a PR. Waiting on CI
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 9:24 AM Jamie Johnson <
> >> [email protected]>
> >> > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Should this be included?
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > TOMEE-4263: Update Apache Santuario to 2.3.4 from 2.3.2
> >> (xmlsec) to
> >> > > > > > > mitigate CVE-2023-4448
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Not sure how to find the others without going through commit
> >> > > history.
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Jamie
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 8:19 AM Jonathan S. Fisher <
> >> > > [email protected]>
> >> > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Richard, thank you sir; I assigned that ticket to myself. If
> >> > > anyone
> >> > > > > > > > else is aware of anything else I can upgrade before release,
> >> > > please
> >> > > > > > > > speak up :)
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > Also good news: for whatever reason, I'm able to build
> >> > > > > > > > tomee-release-tools now. The atlassian maven repository hit
> >> me
> >> > > with a
> >> > > > > > > > rate limit briefly but it seems to have lifted.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > I have three questions at this point in time:
> >> > > > > > > > 1. Is there a way to scan 8.0.16-SNAPHSOT before release for
> >> > > CVE's?
> >> > > > > > > > 2. Are there CVEs we ignore? (basically ones that are
> >> present but
> >> > > > > > > > don't apply to us)
> >> > > > > > > > 3. I ran a build locally and got two test failures. Looks
> >> like
> >> > > CI did
> >> > > > > > > > too:
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > >
> >> https://ci-builds.apache.org/job/Tomee/job/tomee-8.x-build-full-java8/lastCompletedBuild/
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > It doesn't look related to the EclipseLink change unless I
> >> > > screwed the
> >> > > > > > > > pooch on something. Are these known issues by chance?
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 1:03 AM Richard Zowalla <
> >> > > [email protected]>
> >> > > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Might be relevant for your release preperations:
> >> > > > > > > > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TOMEE-4263
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > Am 26. Oktober 2023 00:11:14 MESZ schrieb "Jonathan S.
> >> Fisher"
> >> > > <
> >> > > > > > > > [email protected]>:
> >> > > > > > > > > >Thank you, eclipselink has been updated and boms also
> >> updated.
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >Are the tomee release tools still needed?
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >[ERROR] Failed to execute goal on project release-tools:
> >> > > Could not
> >> > > > > > > > > >resolve dependencies for project
> >> > > > > > > > > >org.apache.openejb.tools:release-tools:jar:1.0-SNAPSHOT:
> >> > > Failed to
> >> > > > > > > > > >collect dependencies at
> >> > > org.tomitribe.jamira:jamira-core:jar:0.4 ->
> >> > > > > > > > > >com.atlassian.jira:jira-rest-java-client-app:jar:5.2.2:
> >> > > Failed to read
> >> > > > > > > > > >artifact descriptor for
> >> > > > > > > > > >com.atlassian.jira:jira-rest-java-client-app:jar:5.2.2:
> >> The
> >> > > following
> >> > > > > > > > > >artifacts could not be resolved:
> >> > > > > > > > > >com.atlassian.jira:jira-rest-java-client-app:pom:5.2.2
> >> > > (absent): Could
> >> > > > > > > > > >not transfer artifact
> >> > > > > > > > > >com.atlassian.jira:jira-rest-java-client-app:pom:5.2.2
> >> from/to
> >> > > > > > > > > >atlassian (
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > https://maven.atlassian.com/content/repositories/atlassian-public/):
> >> > > > > > > > > >status code: 429, reason phrase: Too Many Requests (429)
> >> ->
> >> > > [Help 1]
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >I can't seem to get the artifacts from their Maven
> >> repository
> >> > > due to
> >> > > > > > > > > >rate limiting unfortunately.
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >On Wed, Oct 25, 2023 at 8:50 AM Richard Zowalla <
> >> > > [email protected]>
> >> > > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Feel free to update 3rd party dependencies (make sure
> >> to
> >> > > create a
> >> > > > > > > > Jira,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> so it gets into the release notes). To update the BOMs
> >> you
> >> > > can either
> >> > > > > > > > > >> rely on the related GitHub action (will do it
> >> automatically
> >> > > via a PR)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> or just run a quick build.
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> Am Mittwoch, dem 25.10.2023 um 08:40 -0500 schrieb
> >> Jonathan
> >> > > S. Fisher:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Richard: thank you sir, I see my key in there.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Rod: Are the docker images part of the main build? I
> >> > > don't use
> >> > > > > > > > Docker
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > professionally, so I'm not very familiar with the
> >> whole
> >> > > process.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > I see Tomcat 9.0.82 in tomee-8.x. Yeehaw!
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > Does anyone have an issue with me updating to
> >> eclipselink
> >> > > 2.7.13?
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > https://github.com/eclipse-ee4j/eclipselink/releases/tag/2.7.13
> >> > > > > > > > We've
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > been running TomEE 8.0.15 with 2.7.13 in production
> >> for a
> >> > > few weeks
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > and haven't seen any issues.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > On Tue, Oct 24, 2023 at 10:18 AM Rod Jenkins
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > Is there anyway to test the keys before we
> >> deploy?  We
> >> > > have issues
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > in the past with new keys and verifying the
> >> packages
> >> > > when the
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > docker images are built.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > Thanks,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > Rod.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > On Oct 24, 2023, at 9:06 AM, Richard Zowalla <
> >> > > [email protected]>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > Added to
> >> > > https://dist.apache.org/repos/dist/release/tomee/KEYS
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Am Dienstag, dem 24.10.2023 um 08:54 -0500
> >> schrieb
> >> > > Jonathan S.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > Fisher:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > pasted here:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
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> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > C
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> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > =AdHB
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sun, Oct 22, 2023 at 11:35 PM Richard
> >> Zowalla
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > The list doesn't allow attachments, so maybe
> >> add
> >> > > it as plain
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > text
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > (or put it into a gist)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Gruß
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Richard
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Am 22. Oktober 2023 21:48:22 MESZ schrieb
> >> > > "Jonathan S.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > Fisher"
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > <[email protected]>:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Attached! Thank you!
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 21, 2023 at 7:42 PM Richard
> >> Zowalla
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Just send it in the required ascii
> >> armored
> >> > > format via
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > your
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > apache mail (or via die web ui on
> >> > > lists.apache.org
> >> > > > > > > > after
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > login.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > I can take care of it.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Am 22. Oktober 2023 01:05:53 MESZ schrieb
> >> > > "Jonathan S.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Fisher"
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > <[email protected]>:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > Richard thanks. Anyone on this thread
> >> able
> >> > > to add me
> >> > > > > > > > to
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > KEYS file?
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > I'd like to give this a roll :)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > cheers,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 7:12 AM Jamie
> >> > > Johnson
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > Just checking in on this. Anything
> >> the
> >> > > community can
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > do to
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > facilitate the
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > release?
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 17, 2023 at 9:58 AM
> >> Richard
> >> > > Zowalla
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Hi,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > see
> >> > > > > > > > https://tomee.apache.org/dev/release-tomee.html
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Might be beneficial to join the ASF
> >> > > slack with
> >> > > > > > > > your
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > apache.org mail.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Starting the VOTE, moving
> >> artifacts to
> >> > > release
> >> > > > > > > > area
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > as
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > well as updating
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> https://downloads.apache.org/tomee/KEYS
> >> > > needs to
> >> > > > > > > > be
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > done
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > by a PMC member.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Gruß
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Richard
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Am 17. Oktober 2023 15:50:33 MESZ
> >> > > schrieb
> >> > > > > > > > "Jonathan
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > S.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > Fisher" <
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]>:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED
> >> MESSAGE-----
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Hash: SHA512
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > ello other TomEE committers :)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > If I wanted to cut 8.0.16, how
> >> do I
> >> > > do that? My
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > personal GPG key is
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > 871638A21A7F2C38066471420306A354336B4F0D. I'll
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > sign
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > this text block to
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > prove I have control of my key.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you!
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > iLkEARMKAB0WIQSHFjiiGn8sOAZkcUIDBqNUM2tPDQUCZS6RI
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > AAKCRA
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > DBqNUM2tP
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > DYahAgkBNYn+LlIdFttvNW6KAJXHgNEQxmjJ6ALb7VaaEdqAX
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > jMNxwg
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > lLQQQVOVY
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > NtRxRj5nHDOXUVqwLjftisxyNnAkx50CCQHYbqySGYuWOxMdS
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > 8jsDGA
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > 2/UjTp0ib
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > RkLoChrMvppzIK5GOvd0UyBKmrvG3dkzJwQllPZ3EYvNZfLyl
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > +/K5oO
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > shg==
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > =d0gl
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 6:12 AM
> >> Jamie
> >> > > Johnson
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks like tomcat 9.0.82 was
> >> > > released!
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at 12:54
> >> PM
> >> > > Jamie Johnson
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks right to me as well.
> >> Thanks
> >> > > Richard!
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at
> >> 12:45 PM
> >> > > Richard
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zowalla
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think we are running into
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > https://bz.apache.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=67664
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This requires 9.0.82 to
> >> become
> >> > > available.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > They are already voting:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread/qro48x3xnvhvvxxv3h
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wnqnnsrrry773j
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After 9.0.82 becomes
> >> available,
> >> > > we are
> >> > > > > > > > most
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > likely in a good shape to
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > start a release
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gruß
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 11. Oktober 2023
> >> 18:14:09
> >> > > MESZ schrieb
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zowalla <
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]>:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems the Tomcat
> >> upgrade
> >> > > breaks some
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > connection pool related
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > tests.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I guess we need to check
> >> our
> >> > > integration
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > code
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to fix it:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > >
> >> https://ci-builds.apache.org/job/Tomee/job/tomee-8.x-build-full-java8/lastCompletedBuild/testReport/
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So if anyone wants to
> >> dig,
> >> > > feel free.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am 11. Oktober 2023
> >> 16:56:27
> >> > > MESZ
> >> > > > > > > > schrieb
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jamie
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Johnson <
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [email protected]>:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are other
> >> > > vulnerabilities
> >> > > > > > > > (pulled
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > from
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://osv.dev/)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > that
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can be
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > addressed, but need to
> >> be
> >> > > reviewed.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > format below is
> >> dependency
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > current_version
> >> > > (fix_version).
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > org.apache.httpcomponents:httpclient
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 4.2.2
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (>= 4.5.13)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-2x83-r56g-cv47
> >> (4.2.3),
> >> > > > > > > > GHSA-7r82-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 7xv7-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xcpj
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (4.5.13),
> >> > > GHSA-fmj5-wv96-r2ch (4.3.6),
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cfh5-3ghh-wfjx (4.3.5)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > xalan:xalan 2.7.2
> >> (2.7.3)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-9339-86wc-4qgf
> >> (2.7.3)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > org.apache.commons:commons-compress
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1.14
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (>=1.24.0)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-hrmr-f5m6-m9pq
> >> (1.18),
> >> > > GHSA-xqfj-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vm6h-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2x34 (1.22),
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-h436-432x-8fvx
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (1.16),
> >> GHSA-crv7-7245-f45f
> >> > > (1.21),
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > mc84-pj99-q6hh
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (1.21),
> >> GHSA-7hfm-57qf-j43q
> >> > > (1.21),
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cgwf-w82q-5jrr (1.24.0)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > org.eclipse.jetty:jetty-server
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9.4.49.v20220914
> >> > > (9.4.51.v20230217)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-qw69-rqj8-6qw8
> >> > > > > > > > (9.4.51.v20230217),
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > p26g-97m4-6q7c
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (9.4.51.v20230217)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> org.eclipse.jetty:jetty-http
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9.4.49.v20220914
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (>=9.4.53)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-hmr7-m48g-48f6
> >> > > (9.4.52), GHSA-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wgh7-54f2-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > x98r (9.4.53)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > org.eclipse.jetty:jetty-servlets
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9.4.49.v20220914
> >> (9.4.53)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-3gh6-v5v9-6v9j
> >> (9.4.53)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> org.apache.sshd:sshd-core
> >> > > 2.1.0
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (>=2.10.0)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-9279-7hph-r3xw
> >> (2.7.0),
> >> > > > > > > > GHSA-fhw8-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8j55-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > vwgq
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (2.9.2),
> >> > > GHSA-mjmq-gwgm-5qhm (2.10.0)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> com.google.code.gson:gson
> >> > > 2.2.4
> >> > > > > > > > (2.8.9)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-4jrv-ppp4-jm57
> >> (2.8.9)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > org.webjars:handlebars
> >> > > 1.2.1 (4.7.7)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-f2jv-r9rf-7988
> >> (4.7.7)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > org.apache.ivy:ivy
> >> 2.3.0
> >> > > (>= 2.5.2)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GHSA-wv7w-rj2x-556x
> >> (2.5.1),
> >> > > > > > > > GHSA-2jc4-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > r94c-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > rp7h (2.5.2)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2023 at
> >> > > 6:49 AM Jamie
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Johnson
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <[email protected]>
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How deep down the
> >> rabbit
> >> > > hole should
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > dependency checks
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > normally
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > go?
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Looks like the big
> >> ones I
> >> > > was
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tracking with
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > security updates were
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > done.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > johnzon 1.2.21
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tomcat 9.0.81
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bouncy castle 1.76
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Still poking around
> >> a bit
> >> > > but
> >> > > > > > > > there’s
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > obviously a lot.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Oct 11, 2023
> >> at
> >> > > 2:09 AM
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Zowalla <
> >> [email protected]
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In theory, every
> >> > > committer can act
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > as
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > release manager.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There are some
> >> steps in
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > process,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which requires PMC
> >> > > karma,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > though
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (such as adding a
> >> key
> >> > > to the KEYS
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > file,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > moving stuff to the
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > release
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > are
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > on SVN, start the
> >> VOTE,
> >> > > etc.).
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The process is
> >> > > documented here:
> >> > > > > > > > [1]
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am currently
> >> planning
> >> > > to start
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > release process for
> >> > > TomEE
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > 9.1.1
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > within this week.
> >> Due
> >> > > to the
> >> > > > > > > > Tomcat
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > security issues
> >> released
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > yesterday,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > we need to do some
> >> > > backporting,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > will consume
> >> additional
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > time.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (It
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just interrupted my
> >> > > preparations,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > so it
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > needs additional
> >> CI /
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > TCK
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cycles)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A release usally
> >> > > consumes around
> >> > > > > > > > 1-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > hours of work.
> >> Mostly
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > because
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > have to wait for
> >> stuff
> >> > > being build
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > or to
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > run some basic
> >> sanity
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > checks
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > before starting
> >> and to
> >> > > not forget
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > any
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > step.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What would really
> >> help
> >> > > for a TomEE
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8.0.16
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > is to carefully
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > re-check
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > current
> >> dependencies
> >> > > for important
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 3rd
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > party dependencies
> >> (and
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > update
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > if needed. Note:
> >> Each
> >> > > update or
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > bunch of
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > updates shouldn't
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > break the
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > build. A full
> >> build on
> >> > > CI takes
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > around 4-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 8 hours) on that
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > branch,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > build
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it locally and
> >> conduct
> >> > > some sanity
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > checks
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > (for example: same
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > lib in
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > different versions
> >> in
> >> > > /lib ->
> >> > > > > > > > check
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > fix) with the
> >> created
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tar.gz/zip files.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is one of the
> >> > > steps, which
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > usually
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > consumes a lot of
> >> time.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > If
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > you
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > want to give it a
> >> try,
> >> > > I am happy
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > to help
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > out for the steps
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > which
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > require PMC
> >> involvement.
> >> > > > > > > > Otherwise,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > might find some
> >> time in
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > next
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > week to start a
> >> release
> >> > > of 8.0.16
> >> > > > > > > > -
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > just
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > let me know and I
> >> can
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > plan
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > my
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > time accordingly
> >> ;-)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gruß
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1]
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > https://tomee.apache.org/dev/release-tomee.html
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Am Dienstag, dem
> >> > > 10.10.2023 um
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 17:56 -
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 0500 schrieb
> >> Jonathan S.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Fisher:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jean-Louis, are
> >> there
> >> > > directions
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > anywhere? Not
> >> > > promising
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > anything
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > :)
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Oct 10,
> >> 2023
> >> > > at 5:22 PM
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jean-
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Louis Monteiro
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <
> >> > > [email protected]>
> >> > > > > > > > wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Whomever is
> >> > > committer can do
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I was just
> >> trying
> >> > > to give you
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > an
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > honest reply
> >> > > regarding my
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > availabilities
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and give
> >> visibility
> >> > > to the
> >> > > > > > > > rest
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > of
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > the community
> >> and
> >> > > the
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > other
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > committers
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at the same
> >> time.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hope it helps.
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Le mar. 10 oct.
> >> > > 2023, 23:27,
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jamie
> >> > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Johnson <
> >> > > > > > > > > >> >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > --
> >> > > > > > > > Jonathan | [email protected]
> >> > > > > > > > Pessimists, see a jar as half empty. Optimists, in
> >> contrast, see
> >> > > it as
> >> > > > > > > > half full.
> >> > > > > > > > Engineers, of course, understand the glass is twice as big
> >> as it
> >> > > needs to
> >> > > > > > > > be.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > --
> >> > > > > > Jonathan | [email protected]
> >> > > > > > Pessimists, see a jar as half empty. Optimists, in contrast,
> >> see it
> >> > > as
> >> > > > > > half full.
> >> > > > > > Engineers, of course, understand the glass is twice as big as it
> >> > > needs to be.
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > >
> >> > > > > --
> >> > > > > Jonathan | [email protected]
> >> > > > > Pessimists, see a jar as half empty. Optimists, in contrast, see
> >> it as
> >> > > > > half full.
> >> > > > > Engineers, of course, understand the glass is twice as big as it
> >> needs
> >> > > to be.
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > --
> >> > > > Jonathan | [email protected]
> >> > > > Pessimists, see a jar as half empty. Optimists, in contrast, see it
> >> as
> >> > > > half full.
> >> > > > Engineers, of course, understand the glass is twice as big as it
> >> needs
> >> > > to be.
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jonathan | [email protected]
> >> Pessimists, see a jar as half empty. Optimists, in contrast, see it as
> >> half full.
> >> Engineers, of course, understand the glass is twice as big as it needs to
> >> be.
> >>
> >



-- 
Jonathan | [email protected]
Pessimists, see a jar as half empty. Optimists, in contrast, see it as
half full.
Engineers, of course, understand the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

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