closing this topic with https://github.com/apache/incubator-zipkin-website/issues/12
as far as I am concerned.. case closed here. thanks, ignasi On 2019/05/15 16:35:47, Adrian Cole <[email protected]> wrote: > I see.. if this was about the website, I can imagine there is a lot to > do there. We haven't done any content work of note since entering.. it > has all been release engineering in nature. We should track whatever > that is on https://github.com/apache/incubator-zipkin-website/ > > thanks for helping me understand! > -A > > On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 12:28 AM Ignasi Barrera <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Reading the issue I see the misunderstanding here. > > > > So, in my feedback in the previous vote there were two points: README > > and website. > > > > The current README looks fine. In this thread, I was referring to the > > Zipkin website. Apologies for the misunderstanding. I'll follow up on > > the issue. > > > > > > > > On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 18:06, Adrian Cole <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > I added an issue for the mentors to figure out how to handle your > > > feedback, Ignasi > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-zipkin/issues/2597 > > > > > > take care, > > > -A > > > > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 11:36 PM Adrian Cole <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, Ignasi. > > > > > > > > There have been several mail threads about how voted source is the > > > > only thing official, and that it is important that we build things > > > > from that voted source. For example, these are derived from the > > > > "convenience binaries" also built from the source on the apache > > > > repository. As far as I know there is no requirement to even have a > > > > binary distribution, so I am a bit unclear about this I think if you > > > > look at some email threads on incubator from the last 6 months it > > > > certainly is clear that source is official and almost nothing else is > > > > as clear as that. > > > > > > > > I don't think your advice is practical, in other words. You want us to > > > > point to something that doesn't exist which would only confuse people. > > > > > > > > Is it possible for you to work with mentors or other IPMC to clarify > > > > this and that others are following your strict view routinely? > > > > > > > > -A > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 11:15 PM Ignasi Barrera <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > The main problem is that on the current website the Quickstart page is > > > > > the only place with instructions on how to get Zipkin, and it points > > > > > to using, strictly speaking, non-official-release artifacts and > > > > > artifacts that have not been voted upon, such as the Docker image. > > > > > > > > > > The project should have a main Download (or whatever name you prefer) > > > > > page that points to the ASF official release as the main option, with > > > > > links to the official ASF source release, checksums, signature files, > > > > > and some instructions on how to use those files to verify integrity, > > > > > etc. Those files are actually the only ones you as a PMC are strictly > > > > > responsible for. Any other published content is convenience content to > > > > > make users lives easier and should be clearly marked as such in the > > > > > download page. > > > > > > > > > > [some context because understanding the "whys" is important, > > > > > especially for the PMC] > > > > > The reasoning behind this is expectations. Software from the ASF comes > > > > > with a set of guarantees enforced by the use of the Apache License, > > > > > but also with an additional set of "social" guarantees not directly > > > > > provided by the license but enforced by the PMC (project independence, > > > > > neutrality, etc) and how the Foundation expects projects to operate. > > > > > These guarantees are extremely important for people consuming Apache > > > > > software. They are the main value the Foundation provides to end-users > > > > > and we want these expectations to be met by all Apache projects. The > > > > > PMCs are responsible for doing their best to create releases that > > > > > achieve that. > > > > > Since the convenience artifacts cannot be subject to the same diligent > > > > > checks than source releases (for example you are not inspecting > > > > > binaries to check if there is ASLv2 incompatible stuff) we cannot > > > > > provide those guarantees there, thus we don't consider those official > > > > > ASF releases, although we understand convenience and allow to > > > > > distribute them too. > > > > > [/some context] > > > > > > > > > > So, each Apache project should have a Download page explaining how to > > > > > get the software, and the main option there should be how to obtain > > > > > the official artifacts that provide the mentioned above. There can be > > > > > also instructions to get convenience binaries and other ways to get > > > > > and use the software, but the distinction should be clear. > > > > > > > > > > If that page exists (which is not the case now), I see no issue in > > > > > keeping the Quickstart page as-is, as long as we meet the previous > > > > > criteria and Quickstart is seen as "hey, to get the official release > > > > > you can go here, but if you want to start playing with it right away > > > > > you can do this". > > > > > > > > > > Hope this makes sense, > > > > > > > > > > I. > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 15 May 2019 at 14:04, Adrian Cole <[email protected]> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, all. I went to cleanup things mentioned by Ignasi in his last > > > > > > review here: > > > > > > https://lists.apache.org/thread.html/fcc730ad01eb55293f7a174a3b5301f4a277b6222c7bb821d33faf2e@%3Cdev.zipkin.apache.org%3E > > > > > > > > > > > > What is troubling is this one: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Quickstart page should encourage using official releases instead of > > > > > > master. It is good to have instructions for that, but instructions > > > > > > on > > > > > > how to build official releases should come first, and using > > > > > > snapshots/devel should be clear marked as non-official ASF > > > > > > releases." > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what is meant by this. Our quickstart doesn't attempt > > > > > > to > > > > > > do anything from master, as it takes from latest published maven > > > > > > artifact. [1] > > > > > > > > > > > > Ignasi, can you clarify what you meant? Definitely we want people to > > > > > > not build on their own as this would lead to more custom servers > > > > > > which > > > > > > are a terrible support burden. > > > > > > > > > > > > -A > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > > > https://github.com/apache/incubator-zipkin-website/blob/master/quickstart.sh#L18 > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] > For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [email protected] For additional commands, e-mail: [email protected]
