On 7/4/19 5:21 AM, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > On Wed, Jul 03, 2019 at 04:23:24PM -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/CGroupsV2 >> >> == Summary == >> The kernel has had some support for CgroupsV2 for some time, and yet >> no one has used it because it is not on by default. There are lots of >> new features and fixes over CgroupsV1 that it is time to reveal to the >> user community. >> >> == Owner == >> * Name: [[User:dwalsh| Daniel J Walsh]] >> * Email: <dwa...@redhat.com> >> >> >> == Detailed Description == >> Enablement of the CgroupsV2 by default will allow tools like systemd, >> container tools and libvirt to take advantage of the new features and >> many fixes in Cgroups V1. A lot of the functionality in VGroups V1 >> has been rewritten to fix fundamental flaws in its design. >> >> The reason CGroupsV2 by default has been blocked is that the Container >> tools and someone the Virtualization tools did not have support. We >> believe that the time is right to try to move these tools along to >> take advantage of this kernel feature. In order to begin testing these >> features more widely we believe we need to have a platform like >> Rawhide to test on and get others to test as well. >> >> The main features of CgroupsV2 we would like to take advantage of in >> the container world is delegation of cgroup hierarchies. Allowing >> tools like podman to be able to use CGroups in rootless mode, would be >> a large advance. >> >> >> == Benefit to Fedora == >> Fedora is known for being a leading platform for the enablement of new >> kernel functions, and this would continue its legacy. The world will >> eventually move to CGroupsV2 and Fedora should lead the way. >> >> == Scope == >> * Proposal owners: >> The largest changes required to make this Change is to get containers >> runtimes like RUNC to work with the change. After RUNC has support >> for CgroupsV2 we need to move container engines like Podman, CRI-o, >> Buildah and Moby into support CgroupsV2. >> >> * Other developers: >> We need to find other tools that have built the CGroupsV1 API into >> themselves and get them to support CGroupsV2. >> >> Known packages: >> >> - libvirt: The team is already working on this. >> >> - JVM: Uses Cgroups file system to check for allocated memory for >> the JVM, will have to use and understand the CgroupV2 mechanism to >> discover these sessings. >> >> - Snap package does not run with CGroupV2: >> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1438079 >> >> - Systemd will need to be modified to set the new default to cgroupv2 >> >> * Release engineering: [https://pagure.io/releng/issue/8509 #8509] >> * Policies and guidelines: >> * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change) >> >> >> == Upgrade/compatibility impact == >> Any tools or scripts that an administrator used to manually configure >> the CGroupsV1 will have to be modified to CGroupsV2. Luckily if these >> tools took advantage of systemd interfaces they should not require >> changes. >> >> == How To Test == >> Make sure different tools that use cgroups continue to work when >> booted into the new system. Make sure containers, virtual machines >> and the Jave Virtual Machine still work properly. Convert the VM's of >> the Container tools like CRI-O, Buildah, Podman for run on Rawhide and >> make sure their test suites completely pass. Will request that the >> libvirt team and JVM teams similarly change their test platforms. > Actually it's enough to set 'systemd.unified-cgroup-hierarchy' on the > kernel command line to test. I think this should be mentioned, so > people can test already in F29 or F30 or rawhide before the default is > changed. > >> == User Experience == >> We believe that at this point their will be no or very little user >> experience change, unless he is an administrator looking to modify the >> system Cgroups using the cgroupsfs. >> >> One potential problem will be container images that expect to be >> running in a CgroupV1 environment. Some container engines leak the >> Cgroup Hierarchy into containers so that tools within the container >> can look at how much memory the cgroup gives them for example. These >> tools might break with the change, but they should be adjusted quickly >> over time, and I don't really see a way to avoid this. >> >> == Dependencies == >> Currently there are no known changes to the package requirements for >> this change. >> >> == Contingency Plan == >> * Contingency mechanism: If the container tools and virtualization >> tools do not work at beta and do not look like they will be ready for >> beta freeze, then we revert to CgroupsV1 and try again in Fedora 32 >> * Contingency deadline: Beta Freeze >> * Blocks release? Yes > We know that cgroupv2 already (and for a long time...) works better > than v1, so I'd rather make the switch unconditional, using the usual > phrasing of "In the unlikely case catastrophic problems are discovered > with v2, the default will be reverted to v1.". > > Reverting the change is not the only possibility. We could simply > say that people who run software incompatible with v2 should modify > their kernel command line to override the default > (systemd.unified_cgroup_hierarchy=0). > > I'm sure a majority of machines do not run any containers, and they > will benefit from the change, and only the minority who is using > lagging software will need to adjust. > > E.g. the complete lack of activity on > https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1678342 > and https://bugs.launchpad.net/snapd/+bug/1801664 suggests that > snapd will be caught dead in the water when F31 is released. > But IMHO it's likely that they will not be ready when F32 is released > either. I think we simply need to accept that not everything will be > ready at any given point, and select users will always have to undo the > switch locally. > > Zbyszek > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
Their has not been much progress on runc development for this, which might be a blocker. In the Podman/Buildah world, we have support for crun, an alternate OCI Runtime replacement for runc. crun supports cgroupsv2. There has been little movement in Kubernetes and OpenShift for adding this support, but there has also been little incentive, since no OS Has moved to it. Can systemd turn on the cgroupsv2 by default in Rawhide, to see what complaints happen. _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-le...@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
