On 9/23/19 1:53 PM, Markus Larsson wrote:
You already have a solution. Use the solution you have.
Not a solution, it's a bandaid to a much larger problem.
Fedora will not change to cater to this particular need.
Your opinions does not dictate what Fedora should/shouldn't do.
Yet Fedora expects other distros/DEs, *including their own spins* to
cater to their decisions when those decisions aren't wanted or
technically possible to begin with. That's hypocritical.
Your rants and all caps won't make anything change. Please try to deal
with it and move on from this rather dead thread.
My apologies for interrupting your daily mailing list programming of
package orphaning/retirement. I know everyone's waiting on their seats
in anticipation of what packages are going orphaned/retired next, but
the current discussion has evolved into something that very much impacts
that very issue.
Let me break it down for you:
1. More fragmentation means more work to maintain and test everything.
2. More work to maintain and test everything requires more people.
3. More people means more roles that have to be filled which require
experience.
4. Different people have different ideas on approaching problems, and
since they have experience, they use that experience to fragment the
desktop even more instead of compromising or working together. This is
*Fedora*
5. More fragmentation angers developers who want to support the platform
since they can't ensure that their software works remotely consistently.
This is *me*.
6. Angry developers means less software for Linux.
7. Less software for Linux means less users.
8. Less users means a smaller pool of potential people to fill empty roles.
9. Empty roles means things go stale, bugs go unfixed, and no one has
experience.
Make any sense? I know it doesn't perfectly loop back at the end but 1-4
does.
Br
M
On 23 September 2019 20:38:13 CEST, Ty Young <youngty1...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 9/23/19 10:00 AM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 9:50 am, Michael Catanzaro
<mcatanz...@gnome.org> wrote:
You're wasting your time. We're not going to run the X server as
root just so you can overclock your GPU. Not a chance.
It isn't just to overclock my GPU, you're *BREAKING PEOPLE'S
SOFTWARE, EVEN IF THEY ARE FLATPAK*. The whole point of Flatpak
for an end user is cross-distro compatibility!
Anyway, while we won't do that Fedora... since you're clearly
interested in customizing your system, you can do so for
yourself. What you want to do is build gdm using the configure
flag --disable-user-display-server. You can host your special gdm
in a copr if you want to make it easier for other Nvidia
overclockers to use it.
This is entirely unnecessary. You can enable root X. Org via the
config option. A random user's COPR repo isn't a whole lot safer.
See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/XorgWithoutRootRights
for why this was changed (over five years ago!). The changes were
made upstream, so there is nothing Fedora-specific here. If you
use GNOME on most other distros, you should see the same behavior.
Five years ago and yet no other DE besides Gnome supports it. Five
years and many distros that even use Gnome don't even have it
enabled by default. Five years and Fedora has done nothing to make
other DEs support it despite the fact that Fedora is the only one
that actually wants the change to begin with.
Lets *actually read* that link, shall we?
>The user experience will be unchanged
This is a blatant lie. Breaking people's software absolutely
impacts the user experience.
>Desktop product: gdm, Ray Strode is working on this: ?
>KDE spin: ?
>XFCE spin: ?
>LXDE spin: ?
Look at that broad DE support. It's *almost* like no one cares or
wants this, even after 5 years! There are still open bug reports
on multiple distros/DEs that haven't been worked on or updated in
years.
>Having the xserver not run as root reduces Fedora's attack surface.
...which few other Linux distro cares about and is seemingly just
a boogeyman used to fearmonger since no one can pin point actual
malicious software that takes advantage of it to begin with.
If you're so afraid of the X. Org as root boogeyman then oh boy,
allow me to turn it up a notch by telling you just *some* of the
things possible with basic *user* account permissions. You can:
-reboot/shutdown
-silently lockup the system by spawning too many threads
-hard lock the system by passing allowed but unsupported values
-fill up memory, resulting in HDD thrashing and potentially
killing your SSD
-create other processes(pop up windows)
-kill other processes
-upload all your files in your home directory to a personal
private server
-delete all your files in your home directory
-encrypt all your files in your home directory.
...among a whole lot else I'm probably forgetting.
Point is, at some point you need to let the security crap go. No
one else cares besides Fedora and Gnome.
The only distro I know of that uses --disable-user-display-server
is Endless.
Michael
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