On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 14:57, Adam Williamson <adamw...@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 2020-04-02 at 12:06 -0400, Stephen John Smoogen wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Apr 2020 at 10:57, Michael Catanzaro <mcatanz...@gnome.org> > wrote: > > > > > On Wed, Apr 1, 2020 at 8:16 pm, Paul Frields <sticks...@gmail.com> > > > wrote: > > > > For a solution to be viable it needs to meet requirements. > > > > > > Of course, but the problem is that the requirements identified by CPE > > > are wildly inconsistent with the actual requirements of the Fedora > > > community. The Pagure we have right now seems to be working fine for > > > Fedora. All we really need is occasional light maintenance and ensuring > > > the infrastructure keeps running. I don't think we'd be having this > > > conversation now at all if "dist-git must be open source" was a listed > > > requirement, as it should have been from the beginning. > > > > > > We don't need merge trains or MR approvals or mobile apps (seriously?) > > > or private comments or gists or analytics or basically any of the other > > > requirements that Neal has lampooned. I understand CentOS and RHEL > > > really want merge trains, so maybe that one is a good faith > > > requirement, but I honestly don't think most of the rest of them are. > > > The list seems to have been concocted by looking at GitLab features > > > exclusive to Enterprise and Ultimate editions and then listing as many > > > as possible, not by actually listing features that are really actually > > > needed to make things work. I know the requirements came from > > > stakeholders and not from CPE, but the requirements are so far removed > > > from Fedora's actual needs that it has jeopardized the legitimacy of > > > the rest of the process. Fedora simply doesn't need any of it. To the > > > > > > > I think one of the problems is that every person here says they know what > > Fedora needs and quite frankly after you add up all the things it comes > > into the grab bag we got for a Git replacement. You have your opinions, > and > > so do 800 other developers. Right now the people who want a complete > FLOSS > > solution are yelling but for the last 5+ years the people who have been > > yelling that GitLab/GitHub was a better solution have been yelling. Those > > complaints have been just as strong and vociferous with lots of > > insinuations about wasting time, money, and resources when Git* was > there. > > Let's not conflate things here. Gitlab CE *is* a complete FLOSS > solution. > > > In the end, we have to realize that the Fedora community is not a solid > > mass and there is rarely a clear majority. The infrastructure we have > is a > > highly complicated mess of interlocking tools to try and deal with the > fact > > there is no majority of what people want, and that they want new stuff > > every 3-5 months added. That continually adding complexity has made > getting > > people involved in infrastructure harder and harder because for every > group > > which said 'oh drop this, it isn't needed' there were multiple groups > > saying 'we use this heavily and would stop existing if you took it away'. > > You seem to have jumped away from "git forge requirements" somewhere in > the middle here and are now talking more generally about stuff we have > talked about lots and lots of times before. We know there is a serious > resource issue underlying all this. No-one is debating that. But that > doesn't actually seem to be a direct answer to Michael's post. > > The issue I tried and failed to communicate is that decisions are not made in a vacuum. Everything else I added was me going through various levels of grief and confusing my denial and anger for acceptance. > > -- Stephen J Smoogen.
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