On 5/20/21 02:54, Clement Verna wrote:
On Wed, 19 May 2021 at 13:55, Neal Gompa <ngomp...@gmail.com
<mailto:ngomp...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 2:45 AM Clement Verna
<cve...@fedoraproject.org <mailto:cve...@fedoraproject.org>> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, 19 May 2021 at 06:50, Tomasz Torcz <to...@pipebreaker.pl
<mailto:to...@pipebreaker.pl>> wrote:
>>
>> Dnia Tue, May 18, 2021 at 03:37:27PM -0400, Dusty Mabe napisał(a):
>> > Over the next two days we're rolling out the first Fedora 34
based
>> > Fedora CoreOS into the `stable` stream.
>> >
>> > - systemd-resolved is still enabled but not used yet [1]
>>
>> This was Fedora 33 feature.
>>
>> > - Move to cgroup v2 by default [5].
>>
>> This was Fedora 31 feature.
>>
>> I was wondering: Fedora CoreOS actively undoes distribution-wide
>> changes (at least the two above, I remember lagging with
iptables-nft
>> around Fedora 32). End user may confused, seeing the list of
changes
>> for the release X, but receiving only few of them with edition
CoreOS X.
>>
>> Should such divergence be allowed? Should Fedora CoreOS use
the same
>> version number while not containing all the changes from main
Fedora Linux?
>
>
> I think this is the fundamental difference here, Fedora CoreOS
does not have a version number. It has 3 streams, stable, testing
and next, these streams are based on a version of Fedora Linux but
that should just be a detail that most end users should not have
to care about.
> Another difference is that Fedora CoreOS has automatic updates
and if we want our users to trust these automatic updates we need
them to be rock solid. This leads to Fedora CoreOS being more
conservative on how changes are rolled out to users, taking the
example rolling out cgroups v2 in the Fedora 31 time frame would
have broken all users that are using Docker to run their
containers and this was not acceptable :-).
>
> If some users are getting confused and get curious about why
there are these differences and learn more about how Fedora CoreOS
works, that's a good thing IMO :-)
No. This is a cop-out and a bad answer.
The reason this happened is
because Fedora CoreOS historically has not participated in the
development of Fedora Linux, including the Changes process, and
generally rolled back features instead of adapting with them during
the development cycle.
I don't think it is fair to say that FCOS is not participating in the
Change process. FCOS is following closely the Change Proposals
[0][1][2][3]. I agree that we could do a better job at submitting
Change Proposals and that's something we should improve on.
One thing I have a hard time to understand tho, if what happens when a
Change proposals breaks FCOS (like cgroups v2 for example) ? Should
that just be rejected ? AFAIK not all changes are adopted by every
Editions or Spins. What is in your opinion the correct way forward ?
It's not like making changes and breaking upgrades is acceptable in
Fedora Linux either.
Breaking or non backward compatible changes are acceptable in Fedora
Linux tho between major version bump. Again here the cgroups v2 is a
good example, folks using Docker had to perform some manual steps to
switch back to cgroups v1 to keep using their workflow working. This
is fine when you have a major version bump but this does not happen in
FCOS.
This might end up being a major problem with FCOS, if we are stuck with
the defaults forever, and never able to take advantage of new technology.
It's just that the Fedora CoreOS WG has not
participated in the main development process and rolled back changes
instead of adapting to them, which has frustrated pretty much
everyone. The containers team in particular was extremely unhappy to
find out cgroup v1 was still used in FCOS. I was pretty cheesed off
when I discovered the sqlite rpmdb feature was rolled back in FCOS.
In general, I'm not pleased with how Fedora CoreOS does this.
Hopefully they will do better in the future.
[0] - https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/372
<https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/372>
[1] - https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/609
<https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/609>
[2] - https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/704
<https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/704>
[3] - https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/824
<https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/824>
--
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
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