Yo Richard! Uh, sorry, I've been offline with the grunge.
On Thu, 7 Dec 2017 20:22:48 -0600 Richard Laager via devel <devel@ntpsec.org> wrote: > On 12/07/2017 03:06 PM, Fred Wright via devel wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Dec 2017, Ian Bruene via devel wrote: > > > >> For installs the only remaining problem is that for unknown > >> reasons it sometimes doesn't follow the PREFIX when installing the > >> python libs. > > > > There's nothing "unknown" about it. > > Actually, there is something unknown. Gary's case in #414 seems to be > the default of prefix=/usr/local, which should be in sys.path, sys.path? How that that get in the mix? I always used PYTHONPATH. This link does imply controversy, with a slight lean to PYTHONPATH over sys.path. https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1893598/pythonpath-vs-sys-path But my installer should be listening to what I tell it, not look in my environment which I'll likely configure AFTER I install NTPsec. And, as you'll see reading blow, both may be totally irrelevant. > and yet > he is getting the python bits installed to /usr. Surely that is not > the intended behavior, right? And worse, SOME of my install goes in /usr, some in /usr/local. It should be all one, or all the other. The goal is not one intended behavior, but to easily, and obviously, allow for any intended behavior. I'm a big fan of long standing tradtion, embodied in the FHS, that user installed software goes in /usr/local. That cleanly separates my experiments from the carefully curated packages from my distro. > The default case is prefix=/usr/local, which (correct me if I'm wrong) > works without hacks. Sadly, recently broken. > The distro-packaging case is to install to /usr, which (correct me if > I'm wrong) works without hacks. For this case, keep in mind that the > final install location is /usr, but prefix is a temporary directory. Not always... I'm also a big fan of Gentoo, and their supported packages. The Gentoo way is to download the upstream tarball, then build locally, and install in /usr as officially installed software. You are talking about the the easy case when you install a binary package provided by your distribution. The packager put the files in the package, and the installation program (apt-get?) puts the files in /usr. Nothing we do affects that process. But what we do affects how easy it is for the packager, once for every release, to build the binaries, and install them in a work area (/var/tmp?) so that he can build the package. > The only other real world case I can think of (for software generally, > not just ntpsec), is an install to something under $HOME. These days, > ~/.local is a standardized location, that Python supports. OK, I'll admit, I pretty much only build on boxen where I own root. But that is also a pretty nice observation. > Are there other scenarios that you personally care about, or know of > someone that does? To be clear, I'm not interested in debating > hypothetical scenarios that *could* exist. I think you're getting a feel for the space. So I'll complicate it some more. Look at all Debian derivatives. Now we got 4 possible ultimate destinations, and I'm not exactly sure I got it exactly right: Official Packages install .py in: /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/dist-packages PIP Packages install by system pip in: /usr/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages User sources install .py in: /usr/local/lib/pythonX.Y/dist-packages User installed PIP installs pip packages in: /usr/local/lib/pythonX.Y/site-packages We, NTPsec upstream, only control the 3rd item, but need to make it trivial, and obvious, for a time pressed packager to get from our upstream package what they need to make those other options easy for them to do. > Can we drop fix_python_config and just print a warning (at configure > time), if prefix is something other than /usr, /usr/local, or > ~/.local? I'm not sure the means to the goal, but the goal has be easy paths to the destinations, to typical packager intermediate locations, with the numerous special cases (debian!). So, we need a a document in git, that enumerates all these conflicting goals, and the paths to each goal. So that we communicate to our downstreams how to get what they want out of what we give them. Not gonna be tonight, but gotta be before we ship next point release, it is directly in the way of our path to being easy for all our intended audiences. RGDS GARY --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703 g...@rellim.com Tel:+1 541 382 8588 Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas? "If you can’t measure it, you can’t improve it." - Lord Kelvin
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