> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shubhendu Tripathi" <shtri...@redhat.com> > Sent: Thursday, January 1, 2015 10:05:48 AM > > On 12/31/2014 11:42 PM, Einav Cohen wrote: > > Thanks, Shubhendu. Additional comments: > > > >> ... > >> Yes, attempt to create second snapshot schedule is actually an override > >> option. Of course spot creation is allowed in addition to the scheduled. > >> ... > >> ... > >> If the option Volumes -> Snapshots -> New selected, the dialog opens > >> with pre-populated snapshot name prefix and Recurrence type selected as > >> None by default. This effectively is one time snapshot creation. > >> If this is first time and user wants to schedule the snapshot creation, > >> he/she can change the recurrence type and provide details. Snapshot > >> creation is scheduled in this case. > >> Later, it user wants to edit the schedule, he/she needs to select option > >> Volumes -> Snapshots -> Schedule (may be for this reason only I want to > >> call it Edit Schedule). So effectively option Volumes -> Snapshots -> > >> Schedule is meant for only re-scheduling the snapshot creation. If its > >> not yet scheduled dialog opens with recurrence type selected as None. > >> ... > > From your latest responses, I conclude the following. > > > > via the "New" dialog, you can: > > > > (1) create a one-time snapshot > > (2) create a new snapshot schedule > > (3) override (and practically, edit) an existing snapshot schedule > > > > via the "Schedule" dialog, you can: > > > > (a) create a one-time snapshot (by selecting the 'None' recurrence) > > (b) create a new snapshot schedule (by selecting something other than > > 'None' in the recurrence field, given that no schedule exists yet) > > (c) edit an existing snapshot schedule (which is what this dialog is > > actually meant to do). > > > > I am not sure about (a), but it doesn't matter much for my point: "New" > > and "Schedule" have the exact same functionality. To be more accurate: > > "New" contains all of the needed functionality; "Schedule" is not really > > needed. The only thing that "New" is potentially missing is showing the > > values of the already-existing snapshot schedule, if one exists. > > > > I think that this may confuse to the user; I recommend to either > > unite both of these actions/dialogs to a single action/dialog, or > > separate completely some functionalists. > > > > So my recommendation is to do one of the following: > > > > (a) unite: > > Have a single action ("Create / Schedule") which will display a > > dialog very similar to the "New" dialog, with the option to see the > > values of the already-existing snapshot schedule, if one exists. > > In this case, I would actually recommend to go with something more > > similar to option 2 in http://i.imgur.com/4j7hvRY.png, rather than > > option 3 (so the separation between *creating new* *one-time* > > snapshot and *editing an existing* *scheduled* snapshot is clearer). > > see http://i.imgur.com/ZgCp9Tz.png for an updated suggestion. > > > > - or - > > > > (b) separate: > > Have two completely separate actions: "Create Now" and "Schedule". > > > > - The "Create Now" dialog will look like the 'General' side-section > > of the "New" dialog (i.e. without the "Schedule" side-section; > > it will allow only one-time immediate snapshot creation. > > > > - The "Schedule" dialog will look like the "New" dialog (with both > > 'General' and 'Schedule' side-sections) without the "None" recurrence, > > and will allow only creating a new recurring snapshot schedule (if one > > doesn't exist yet) or editing the existing schedule (in this case, the > > dialog would be pre-populated with the values of the existing schedule). > > > > I am more in favor of (b) - it seems simpler and more user-friendly in > > my view. > > Option (b) is something which we had started with, then at later stage > it was discussed that scheduling as well should be in the flow of > creation of snapshot so merged with New Snapshot option. After this as > we need Edit option for snapshot schedule, so introduced Schedule option. > > But still, as you suggest I feel option (b) is no doubt a clearer and > user friendly way. > > Alok, need a point of view from PMs on this.
Thanks, Shubhendu. @Alok (and all): the main pain-point in the current design that I am trying to address is the fact that in the 'New' dialog, you have the option to create a one- time snapshot, and within the same dialog, with a very small (too small IMO) change, you have the option to edit (override) an already-existing schedule, without even realizing necessarily that you are editing something (since you are in a 'New' dialog) and without seeing the values of the object that you are editing. From a UX perspective, this may be confusing and misleading. if it is imperative to combine the one-time creation functionality with the scheduling functionality, you have option (a). here is another option (c) that will allow you to create a one-time snapshot and *create* a new schedule in the same dialog. it is also probably the closest option to the original design in the wiki, so I encourage you to consider it: (c) Have two options, "New" and "Schedule", like today. - "New" will be *only* for creating new objects, not editing/overriding existing ones. It will look very similar to "New" in the current design, including the "None" recurrence that I have suggested before. * In case a schedule doesn't exist yet - "New" will have both the 'General' and 'Schedule' sections, like today, allowing creating a one- time snapshot as well as creating a new snapshot schedule. * In case a schedule already exists - "New" will have only the 'General' side-section (the 'Schedule' side-section will not be displayed), allowing only creation of new one-time snapshots. - "Schedule": * In case a schedule doesn't exist yet - two options: i. disable this button (i.e. force the user to create a new schedule via "New"); in this case, I agree with Shubhendu on renaming the button to "Edit Schedule". - or - ii. have the dialog look exactly like "New" today, without the "None" recurrence option; so only new schedule can be created, not one-time snapshots. One-time snapshots should be created only via "New". * In case a schedule already exists - the dialog will look like "New", without the 'General' section (i.e. very similar to the mock-up of the "Schedule" dialog in the ovirt wiki today), pre-populated with the current values of the existing schedule. Your thoughts/comments are welcome. Thank you. > > > > > > Your comments/thoughts are welcome. > > > > Thanks! > > > > ---- > > Regards, > > Einav > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "Shubhendu Tripathi" <shtri...@redhat.com> > >> To: "Einav Cohen" <eco...@redhat.com> > >> Cc: de...@linode01.ovirt.org, "rhsc-dev" <rhsc-...@redhat.com> > >> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 12:56:44 AM > >> Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Gluster Volume Snapshots - Feature review > >> > >> Hi Einav, > >> > >> Find the comments inline. > >> > >> Thanks and Regards, > >> Shubhendu > >> > >> On 12/30/2014 11:13 PM, Einav Cohen wrote: > >>> Thank you, Shubhendu! I have a few more comments: > >>> > >>>> Yes that's true for most of the cases. But having Options setting from > >>>> sub-tab, not sure if that's correct. May be "New" is fine. > >>> I think that if a user already got to the "Snapshots" sub-tab of a > >>> specific Volume, it would seem strange that not all Snapshots-related > >>> actions for that Volume are available from there - but I will leave it > >>> to your discretion; I think that "New" is indeed the most important one > >>> to have also in the sub-tab. > >> We may have the New option available under sub tab as well. Setting > >> configuration options would only be available in Volumes main tab. > >> > >>>> Once scheduled the only way to stop snapshot creation is to provide an > >>>> end date. > >>> let me try and understand what are the exact snapshot creation > >>> capabilities. > >>> consider the following use-cases (which may make absolutely no sense, > >>> just giving these as examples in order to understand the capabilities): > >>> > >>> (1) let's say that I want to do two recurring snapshots schedules in > >>> parallel for a single volume: one Monthly, and another one Weekly. > >>> Can I do that? > >> We can have only one schedule for a volume at a time. > >> > >>> I am assuming that I can't, i.e. there can only be one > >>> recurring-snapshot- > >>> creation schedule per volume (which you create via "New" and edit via > >>> "Schedule") - is that correct? If so: are you blocking an attempt to > >>> create a "New" recurring snapshot schedule when one already exists for > >>> this Volume (e.g. disable the "New" button, fail a CanDoAction with a > >>> message such as "Cannot create snapshot scheduling. A snapshot scheduling > >>> already exists for this Volume", etc.) or allowing override of the > >>> already- > >>> existing schedule (with a proper warning)? > >> Even if a volume snapshot creation is scheduled user can still opt for > >> onetime spot snapshot creation and New would be available. > >> > >>> If my assumption is wrong, and I can have two (or more) recurring- > >>> snapshot-creation schedules per volume: how do I *edit* these schedules? > >>> what happens when I click on "Schedule"? which one of the two schedules > >>> will I edit? The Weekly one? The Monthly one? > >> As there is only one schedule for a volume at a time, so this is not > >> valid scenario. Exiting single instance of schedule can be edited using > >> the option Volumes -> Snapshots -> Schedule. May be if you suggest this > >> option can be renamed to "Edit Schedule". > >> > >>> If I am comparing the terminology to the one of Calendar meeting schedule > >>> (see http://i.imgur.com/xvf5w30.png): I don't have any "series" objects > >>> that I can 'edit', I can see only "instances", and I can edit only one > >>> "global" 'series' object via the "Schedule" button. > >>> [again: if there can only be one recurring-snapshot-creation schedule per > >>> volume, then the current design is OK, assuming the attempt to create a > >>> second snapshot-schedule for a volume is properly blocked/overridden/...] > >> Yes, attempt to create second snapshot schedule is actually an override > >> option. Of course spot creation is allowed in addition to the scheduled. > >> > >>> (2) let's say that I want to do a weekly recurring snapshot scheduling > >>> for > >>> a certain volume. In addition to that weekly recurring snapshots, I want > >>> to take a one-time snapshot of this volume right now. Can I do that? > >> Yes, as discussed above stop one time creation in addition to the > >> scheduled is allowed. > >> > >>> If so: then my suggestion [http://i.imgur.com/4j7hvRY.png, option 3] is > >>> indeed valid; I am assuming that the user can create, per volume: one > >>> recurring snapshot schedule + unlimited one-time snapshots. > >> Yes. That's correct. > >> > >>> [If the user can create two (or more) recurring snapshot schedules - see > >>> (1) above]. > >>> need to make sure that the user is able to create a "New" snapshot with > >>> the "Weekly" recurrence schedule, and then another "New" snapshot(s) with > >>> the "None" recurrence schedule, which will create the one-time > >>> snapshot(s) > >>> immediately, and that the schedule of the Weekly snapshot can be edited > >>> via the "Schedule" option. > >> So it goes like this. Say a Weekly snapshot is scheduled for certain > >> volume and later user wants to create single on-spot snapshot. For this > >> he/she need to select the option Volumes -> Snapshots -> New and not > >> Volumes -> Snapshots -> Schedule. By default the option None is selected > >> as Recurrence type and it creates a one time snapshot. Still the > >> schedule stands valid in the system and if the user wants to edit the > >> schedule he/she need to select the option Volumes -> Snapshots -> > >> Schedule. Hope this clarifies. > >> > >>> If not (i.e. the user can create only one recurring snapshot schedule, > >>> and that's it - no additional recurring snapshot schedules, no one-time > >>> immediate snapshots, etc.), then my suggestion is invalid, and a 'None' > >>> recurrence is not needed. > >> As said above, one time snapshot creation is still allowed in addition > >> to the scheduled. (Using Volumes -> Snapshots -> New option) > >> > >>> In this case, just need to make sure that the 'Schedule' side-section of > >>> the dialog will be pre-populated with the most common/reasonable > >>> recurrence > >>> schedule, in case the user will not touch it. > >>> BTW, if this is indeed the case, then there is probably no need for both > >>> 'New' and 'Schedule' buttons - only 'Schedule' is sufficient. > >>> > >>>> Accept. The snapshot create dialog itself can be used here. > >>> Just need to make sure to change its title accordingly (to 'Schedule > >>> Snapshot' or something similar; right now it says "New Snapshot" in > >>> the wiki). > >>> > >>> I assume that this dialog can be used for: > >>> > >>> (a) creating a New snapshot schedule (which should look very similar > >>> to the 'New Snapshot' dialog, maybe with some pre-populated values, > >>> maybe without the 'None' option in the Recurrence drop-down). > >> If the option Volumes -> Snapshots -> New selected, the dialog opens > >> with pre-populated snapshot name prefix and Recurrence type selected as > >> None by default. This effectively is one time snapshot creation. > >> If this is first time and user wants to schedule the snapshot creation, > >> he/she can change the recurrence type and provide details. Snapshot > >> creation is scheduled in this case. > >> Later, it user wants to edit the schedule, he/she needs to select option > >> Volumes -> Snapshots -> Schedule (may be for this reason only I want to > >> call it Edit Schedule). So effectively option Volumes -> Snapshots -> > >> Schedule is meant for only re-scheduling the snapshot creation. If its > >> not yet scheduled dialog opens with recurrence type selected as None. > >> > >>> - and/or - > >>> > >>> (b) editing the already-existing schedule (in this case, fields that > >>> cannot be edited should be disabled). > >> As above. > >> > >>> I hope I was clear - please let me know if you have any questions or > >>> comments. > >>> > >>> Thanks again! > >>> > >>> ---- > >>> Regards, > >>> Einav > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "Shubhendu Tripathi" <shtri...@redhat.com> > >>>> To: "Einav Cohen" <eco...@redhat.com> > >>>> Cc: de...@linode01.ovirt.org, "rhsc-dev" <rhsc-...@redhat.com> > >>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 7:09:51 AM > >>>> Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Gluster Volume Snapshots - Feature review > >>>> > >>>> Thanks Einav for the detailed review and your comments. > >>>> Find below the comment inline. > >>>> > >>>> Will update the wiki accordingly and circulate. > >>>> > >>>> Team, please provide your thoughts (if conflicting) on this. > >>>> > >>>> Thanks and Regards, > >>>> Shubhendu > >>>> > >>>> On 12/30/2014 05:33 AM, Einav Cohen wrote: > >>>>> Hi Shubhendu, > >>>>> > >>>>> First of all - very detailed wiki pages (I focused mainly on the > >>>>> User Experience part) - nicely done. > >>>>> > >>>>> I have a couple of comments / suggestions regarding the GUI: > >>>>> > >>>>> Snapshot action-group: > >>>>> > >>>>> - from the wiki page: > >>>>> """ > >>>>> A new action-group "Snapshot" would be introduced under actions > >>>>> for a volume. > >>>>> """ > >>>>> I assume that you will implement it similarly to the "Power Management" > >>>>> action-group (on Hosts main tab) or the "Profiling" action-group (on > >>>>> the Volumes tab), i.e. with a drop-down-like styling > >>>>> [http://i.imgur.com/eWRg6o8.png]? > >>>> Yes. That's correct. > >>>> > >>>>> - If the Snapshot-related actions are expected to be core/critical in > >>>>> the Volumes-related workflows, it makes sense to put them in the main- > >>>>> tab, but please consider adding them to the Snapshots sub-tab as well, > >>>>> in order to be consistent with other similar oVirt workflows. > >>>> Yes that's true for most of the cases. But having Options setting from > >>>> sub-tab, not sure if that's correct. May be "New" is fine. > >>>> > >>>>> New Snapshot dialog -> Schedule section: > >>>>> > >>>>> - I suggest to implement the time-interval selection with a drop-down, > >>>>> rather than a radio-button group; it is more consistent with e.g. > >>>>> event-repeat scheduling in a calendar [http://i.imgur.com/y9Gn3wq.png], > >>>>> it will save real-estate within the dialog and it will be more easily > >>>>> readable for the user. > >>>> That's a good suggestion. Will do this. > >>>> > >>>>> - to my understanding, the New Snapshot functionality doesn't have to > >>>>> be recurrent; however, there isn't any way to "disable" the recurring > >>>>> aspect. Here are some suggestions to how this should be added: > >>>>> http://i.imgur.com/4j7hvRY.png > >>>> Once scheduled the only way to stop snapshot creation is to provide an > >>>> end date. > >>>> > >>>>> Option 3 is my personal favorite - it is the simplest, and is > >>>>> consistent > >>>>> with Calendear-scheduling UI. Option 1 is my least favorite, however it > >>>>> is consistent with e.g. the "Enable Power Management" UI within the > >>>>> "New > >>>>> Host" dialog. > >>>> Option-3 looks good to me as well. Should be doable I feel. > >>>> > >>>>> Snapshots -> Options: > >>>>> > >>>>> - I think that there are a couple of problematic issues with this > >>>>> dialog: > >>>>> > >>>>> * the different functionality of this dialog when a Volume is > >>>>> selected > >>>>> vs. when no Volume is selected may be unclear to the user. > >>>> Agree > >>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> * the fact that we can update Cluster-related parameters (which > >>>>> potentially affects *all* volumes in that Cluster) within a specific > >>>>> Volume-context dialog is a bit risky - and we don't have anything > >>>>> similar > >>>>> to that anywhere in the application today IIRC. > >>>>> > >>>>> my recommendations: > >>>>> > >>>>> * have separate "Options - Cluster" and "Options - Volume" > >>>>> actions; > >>>>> "Options - Cluster" should always be enabled. > >>>>> "Options - Volume" should be enabled only when a Volume is selected. > >>>> Accept > >>>> > >>>>> * Seehttp://i.imgur.com/pfRpjrH.png for my suggestion for > >>>>> "Cluster > >>>>> Options" vs. "Volume Options". Note that from the "Volume Options" > >>>>> dialog, you may allow editing the Cluster Options by clicking on the > >>>>> link-button, which will either (a) open the "Cluster Options" dialog > >>>>> on top or (b) allow editing the Cluster Values inline within the > >>>>> already-open dialog - this should be accompanied with a clear note to > >>>>> the user that he is editing Cluster-related parameters from the current > >>>>> (Volume) context, which may affect *all* Volumes in that Cluster. > >>>>> Also note that in my suggestion, the user can conveniently see both the > >>>>> Volume values and the Cluster Values side-by-side at once, for > >>>>> reference. > >>>> Accept > >>>> > >>>>> Snapshots -> Schedule: > >>>>> > >>>>> - to my understanding, this should be very similar (or identical) to > >>>>> the > >>>>> New Snapshot functionality? if so, we may want to simply open the "New > >>>>> Snapshot" dialog focused on the "Schedule" side-section (rather than > >>>>> the > >>>>> 'General' side-section, maybe already pre-populated with some values in > >>>>> the 'General' side-section (which will still be editable by the user) > >>>>> and > >>>>> something already pre-selected in the (focused) "Schedule" section. > >>>>> > >>>>> please let me know whether you think these can/should be incorporated > >>>>> into the design, and/or if you have any comments or questions. > >>>> Accept. The snapshot create dialog itself can be used here. > >>>> > >>>>> thanks. > >>>>> > >>>>> ---- > >>>>> Regards, > >>>>> Einav > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>>>> From: "Shubhendu Tripathi"<shtri...@redhat.com> > >>>>>> To:de...@linode01.ovirt.org,jhern...@redhat.com, "Michael > >>>>>> Pasternak"<mpast...@redhat.com> > >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 1:52:40 AM > >>>>>> Subject: [ovirt-devel] Gluster Volume Snapshots - Feature review > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Hi All, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Please help us to review the design of Gluster Volume Snapshots in > >>>>>> oVirt, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Here are two design on wiki page > >>>>>> > >>>>>> General Feature Design > >>>>>> http://www.ovirt.org/Features/GlusterVolumeSnapshots > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Detailed Design > >>>>>> http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Design/GlusterVolumeSnapshots > >>>>>> > >>>>>> We target it in ovirt 3.6 release. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Marked Juan/Michael specifically for REST review. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Best Regards, > >>>>>> Shubhendu Tripathi > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Devel mailing list > >>>>>> Devel@ovirt.org > >>>>>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > >>>>>> > >> > > _______________________________________________ Devel mailing list Devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/devel