On Monday 22 September 2014 21:05:14 Klaas Freitag wrote: > On 22.09.2014 20:16, Jos Poortvliet wrote: > > On Tuesday 12 August 2014 00:11:24 Michael Grosser wrote: > >> Hey, > >> > >> I think it totally depends. > >> Bounties are a way to support issues being fixed (in the simplest > >> way), if it happens to be an ownCloud developer either it's a bonus, a > >> ownCloud Inc revenue stream or (as most projects do these give it back > >> to the community team - claiming on behalf of a team is on the roadmap > >> it seems). > > > > Yeah, if a paid engineer implements a bounty, the money should go in the > > pool. We can perhaps use it to pay for coffee and pizza at the next > > ownCloud Conference! > > Hmm, with what reasoning? A lot of people working on free software are > "paid engineers", in whatever company. But most of them are bound to > what their bosses want them to do. Again, in the most companies, and > also in the ownCloud company. So you need to be more accurate: IF the > feature was on the company-todo list of the paid oC developer, that > makes no bounty, no doubt about that. If the same dev does it on a rainy > sunday, and the feature is not on the todo, why would she not get the > bounty?
Yeah, it's a little more complicated like that - but there are actually lots of 'precedents', similar situations, where the same is done. Employees usually can't participate in lotteries, contests and give-aways of a company - even if they would participate in their free time... Take the recent 'review contest' we did: employees and their families were not permitted to join. Also not on a rainy Sunday. > So yes, bounties. You get the point why I dislike that idea? They put > the whole thing of contributing to free software into a wrong light in > my opinion. Yes, it has downsides - exactly that one. > Consider this benefits if you contribute: > - potentially millions of people use code that you wrote and like it. > That is a huge amount of positive energy :) > - in free software projects, the top skilled people of our profession > come together, that is proofed. You meet them and get them to know. > - you learn from them for free, and in whatever flavor of computer > science you want > - you learn how to work with international teams > - you learn social skills > - you learn to read lengthy emails like this > - you learn soo much other stuff > - you go to nice cities and meet crazy guys and party (or not) > - your opportunities when looking for a serious job are hugely good. > - you have so much fun in the evenings and don't have to watch TV > - more... > > Compare that benefits to the bounty dollars. That is why bounties shouldn't be payment. As Michael said - it can be a coffee with cake, or perhaps justification to spend some time on something which you'd otherwise have to spend on doing something for a paying customer. And don't miss the side of the people who put money on bounties - have you seen the frustration in the thread about syncing file changes instead of the entire file ( https://github.com/owncloud/mirall/issues/179 )?? People who can't program or don't have time are helpless in open source projects. That is not cool, and bounties give some of them the ability to participate. > We should donate all the bounties to projects that need the money, or > rather convince the people who donate to the bounties to give the money > to "Médecins sans Frontières" [1] (or such) right away. ... That is an excellent idea. I don't know exactly if and how this can work on bountysource but it would be very cool if bounties could go to a cause like that. Bountysource does actually allow you to donate the money of a bounty to a cause, I believe - Michael probably knows more details, I can't find it in the UI right now. > That is what I think. Thanks for that. > Klaas > > [1] https://www.aerzte-ohne-grenzen.de/mitarbeiten/english > > >> Additionally I think it's not just new contributors, but providing an > >> additional income (more coffee/less consultancy etc.) to contributors > >> and perhaps let ownCloud Inc decide on the importance on issues more > >> easily as the bounty could be a measure on importance too. These > >> metrics could be useful and with the idea to let ownCloud Inc > >> employees claim on behalf of the oC community team it goes back into > >> the community. We'll see how ownCloud Inc/Community/Contributors see > >> the best fit. > >> > >> Still new contributors have one more reason to dig into the overhead > >> (read code, read+sign contributor agreement, read contribution > >> workflow etc.) of becoming a contributor. > >> > >> Cheers > >> Michael > >> > >> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Bernhard Posselt > >> > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> Bounties are used to get features implemented which main developers > >>> wont > >>> implement iirc. I doubt that it will attract more devs. Put yourself in > >>> the role of someone who pays for a bounty: he doesnt want a new > >>> contributor, he wants the issue fixed. > >>> > >>> On 08/11/2014 08:47 PM, Mark Ziegler wrote: > >>>> Hello, > >>>> > >>>> for my understanding bountysource will/should motivate non-main > >>>> developers > >>>> to solve issues. > >>>> As an employer I want my coders working on issues important for me, > >>>> big bounties make issues (reported by users) more interesting. > >>>> > >>>> I am trying to understand how ownCloud development will work together > >>>> with > >>>> bountysource. > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> Mark > >>>> > >>>> Am 11.08.14 20:37, schrieb Bernhard Posselt: > >>>>> Why should it matter who fixes it? > >>>>> > >>>>> On Aug 11, 2014 8:03 PM, Mark Ziegler <[email protected]> > > > > wrote: > >>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> one more thought. > >>>>>> Some devs are employed by ownCloud and solving issues. > >>>>>> Which issues should be target on bountysource? Or better which > >>>>>> persons? > >>>>>> Will employees give their bounties to the project if they solve them > >>>>>> during work time? > >>>>>> Does that make a difference at all? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Just some thoughts. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>> Mark > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Am 11.08.14 19:41, schrieb Michael Grosser: > >>>>>>> Hey, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Small addition: > >>>>>>> Best to say it's mostly handled as a case by case basis as far as I > >>>>>>> know and does try to find the right balance between preventing > >>>>>>> forks > >>>>>>> (dicussing merging of finished work) and paying for finished work. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Additionally to the 6/12 months option to get refunded if not yet > >>>>>>> started/finished it's possible to let the refund go to the project > >>>>>>> instead of your account. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Cheers > >>>>>>> Michael > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 7:17 PM, Michael Grosser > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>> Hey, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> If they are closed as won't fix or not merged you get refunded. > >>>>>>>> There is also the option to make bounty contributions time > >>>>>>>> sensitive > >>>>>>>> and let them be automaticly refunded after 6/12 months I think. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Cheers > >>>>>>>> mciahel > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Mon, Aug 11, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Mark Ziegler > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> Hello, > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> just checked FAQ on Bountysource and still have an open question: > >>>>>>>>> What happens my bounties if issue is never implemented or fixed? > >>>>>>>>> Do I get my money back after some period? > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Cheers, > >>>>>>>>> Mark > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> Devel mailing list > >>>>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>>>> http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Devel mailing list > >>>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>>> http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Devel mailing list > >>>>>> [email protected] > >>>>>> http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Devel mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Devel mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Devel mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Devel mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
_______________________________________________ Devel mailing list [email protected] http://mailman.owncloud.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
