> -----Original Message----- > From: Development <development-bounces+mitch.curtis=qt.io@qt- > project.org> On Behalf Of NIkolai Marchenko > Sent: Thursday, 25 October 2018 12:13 PM > To: Konstantin Tokarev <annu...@yandex.ru> > Cc: Qt development mailing list <development@qt-project.org> > Subject: Re: [Development] QUIP 12: Code of Conduct > > I would also like to point out an extreme case: > https://github.com/opal/opal/issues/941 > Now, I am not saying the Code is going to transform into a shitstorm like > this. > But it's something to be aware of. > Some clear boundaries must be set if Code is ever enforced. > > > Also: a question needs to be answered: say, there's a contributor that does a > lot. > He's a rude ass, but he is a _productive_ rude ass and mostly everyone > agrees that his contributions outweigh his particular quirk. > What are you going to do under such a code of conduct? Remove his access > to the project? This sounds ridiculous tbh.
It's a bit of a loaded question. First you call asocial behaviour a "quirk", as if someone who treats other people like crap is "quirky" - I prefer your phrase "rude arse". Should a code of conduct aim to stop "quirky" behaviour amongst contributors? No, of course not. That's what makes people interesting. A code of conduct should draw the line between quirky behaviour and "rude arse" behaviour. To answer your question: in my experience, nothing happens. They continue being a rude arse because: 1) That is who they are and they aren't interested in changing. 2) People have already decided that this person's technical contributions are worth enough that they can step on anyone, regardless of the fact that it's supposed to be a professional setting. 3) They're "actually a nice person in real life"... as if this excuses it. So if I write "You're a dumbarse" on a piece of paper and send it through the post, but a week later invite you over to my house for a home-cooked meal, it's OK? Are we really encouraging keyboard warriors? Rafael said: "During all these years contributing to Qt I have encountered many times strong criticism in gerrit - some people were very harsh or *seemingly* rude - or that was what I thought, until I realized that: 1) it was just their modus operandi; 2) at the end of the day, their comments made sense and improved my code; 3) they were not butt hurt when roles were reversed." To me it seems like you guys are saying: "I don't care if this person treats me like crap because they sure can code." I'm happy for you if you've gotten this far in life and decided that you like being insulted in exchange for someone reviewing your code (or even just asking a question on IRC), but personally I do not like it. I'm more than capable of standing up for myself, but other people who feel the same way may not feel comfortable speaking out. What you're also saying is: "You (the Qt Project) aren't going to do anything about their behaviour because they contribute good code." Which sadly is true. Really, your question seems almost rhetorical given this. It's even explicitly acknowledged on the home page of the thing that we're basing our code of conduct on: "People with “merit” are often excused for their bad behavior in public spaces based on the value of their technical contributions." - https://www.contributor-covenant.org/ Disregarding all of the other factors (racism, sexual identity, age, etc.) and just keeping it purely about treating other people with respect: the statement above is absolutely true. Honestly I have my doubts whether this code of conduct will actually achieve its most basic goal, given that many people have apparently tried to intervene with the people who treat others poorly and nothing has come of it (although people will tell you it's gotten better). I hope it does, but I've been in the community and around these people long enough to know that it probably won't. Reading through these replies, it's also clear that a large amount of the people responding are quite happy with the status quo, which, although not surprising to me, is always disheartening. I haven't seen any racism, discrimination, etc., but there are definitely people within the community whose behaviour is such that other developers will avoid interacting with them, even if it would have likely improved the quality of their work or got that work done faster. I doubt you'll hear from those people though, because they just want to get their job done -- which is perfectly understandable, but does not excuse the behaviour of the people they try to avoid. > On Thu, Oct 25, 2018 at 1:06 PM Konstantin Tokarev <annu...@yandex.ru > <mailto:annu...@yandex.ru> > wrote: > > > > > 25.10.2018, 13:01, "NIkolai Marchenko" <enmarantis...@gmail.com > <mailto:enmarantis...@gmail.com> >: > >> And btw, we have had a clear majority in favour of adding a CoC at > the Contributor Summit > > > > It seems very wrong to make such decisions at conventions where > only a small part of the contributors can participate. > > Especially for something as big and divisive > > +1 > > -- > Regards, > Konstantin > _______________________________________________ Development mailing list Development@qt-project.org http://lists.qt-project.org/mailman/listinfo/development
