Hi,

> 
> If the user doesn't want to pay much with the tradeoff of less security, the
> incoming-connection fee and outgoing connection payments could be chosen in a
> way that they zero each others out.
> If the user wants high security, he could chose higher incoming connection
> fees and pay lower outgoing connection fees.

So, if $BADGUY wants to ensure that he is a large part of the network he will 
simply set his incoming fee to zero and everybody will happily connect to him, 
anyway.


Greetings,
-- 
 * David ‘Bombe’ Roden <[email protected]>

On 11.06.2014, at 16:51, xor <[email protected]> wrote:

> Signed PGP part
> I haven't read most of this thread, but there are some things which I have to
> say nevertheless
> I think we can agree that the whole problem of Opennet attacks, in particular
> Sybil attacks, is the scarcity problem: How can we make the resource of
> Freenet nodes / user identities / pseudonyms scarce enough to ensure that 1
> attacker cannot pretend to be 10000 entities?
> 
> I've discussed this problem for years with everyone because WOT also depends
> on its solution: Someone MUST NOT be able to generate 100000 trusted
> identities to ensure that Sone, Freetalk, etc. cannot be spammed.
> 
> Further, it applies to the Internet as a whole. For E-Mail is spammed because
> mail addresses are NOT scarce.
> 
> There seem exactly 3 solutions to it:
> 1. Centralization / government / moderation: A single entity is given the
> trust to validate other identities. This approach is used in most of the
> Internet, which is also why privacy on the net sucks. Of course Facebook
> cannot be spammed because they moderate heavily, but they are also one hugh
> company with the data of BILLIONS of people.
> We should NOT want this as its completely opposite to the goals of Freenet.
> 
> 2. Catpchas. Some believe they are safe because their complexity can be
> arbitrarily increased, some believe that anything which is too difficult for
> software to solve cannot be solved by humans as well.
> 
> 3. Hashcash. Bitcoin has solved this in a beautiful way. I would go as far as
> saying that the Bitcoin algorithm is NOT something which solves the problem of
> creating digital money. It rather solves the abstract problem of generating
> scarcity on the Internet, and the fact that digital money can be generated
> using this is just a coincidence.
> 
> Any solutions which people usually mention fall into one of these categories.
> Now while you might have noticed that I am rather pro-Bitcoin, I would still
> say that I am unbiased enough to claim that it is the best solution of
> generating scarcity which exists nowadays. And it probably already has
> millions of users, and a load of developers working on it (3800 forks on
> Github at the moment).
> So I think IF we go for the rather strange approach of making people pay for
> Freenet, we should use the de-facto standard of Bitcoin instead of re-
> inventing the wheel.
> Good thing is: There is already a Java implementation of it (bitcoinj).
> 
> As for the implementation, how about this - notice that it would still be
> decentralized:
> 1. Allow users to configure an arbitrary Bitcoin fee which people who want to
> initiate an incoming connection to the users node need to pay. If someone
> wants to attack your node specifically, he then needs to pay enough so most of
> your connections belong to him. There could be both an initial connection fee
> and a continuous per-time-connected fee.
> 2. Allow the user to give Freenet an arbitrary amount of Bitcoins which it may
> spend on outgoing connections to other peers. Ideally it would automatically
> chose peers which are cheap enough so a sufficient amount of connections are
> outgoing (50% outgoing, 50% ingoing would probably be the natural senseful
> division).
> 
> Seed nodes would then serve as some kind of marketplace where connections are
> traded.
> If the user doesn't want to pay much with the tradeoff of less security, the
> incoming-connection fee and outgoing connection payments could be chosen in a
> way that they zero each others out.
> If the user wants high security, he could chose higher incoming connection
> fees and pay lower outgoing connection fees.
> 
> Bonus:
> - Setting required and paid fees to zero would emulate the existing Opennet
> behavior.
> - The ability to earn money would encourage people to use Freenet.
> - It is still a decentralized solution.
> 
> But a very bad side effect might be that EVERYONE will set their incoming
> connection fee higher than outgoing payment, resulting in the network to break
> completely because nobody will have many connections because nobody is willing
> to pay for them. This might be prevented by not allowing the user to chose
> fees freely and instead only implementing automatic adjustment of the fees
> with some configurable bias (for example security levels LOW, MEDIUM, HIGH),
> hoping that people are too lazy to patch their node so they can chose
> arbitrary fees.
> 
> As for when to implement this: We haven't even made Darknet as easy to use as
> it could be, so I don't think there is a justification for this now.
> Further, Bitcoin still needs some time to mature. I'd see we should at least
> way until the problem of making Bitcoin truly anonymous is solved:
> - Currently it is pseudonymous only: Bitcoin addresses do not tell anything
> about your identity, and you can generate as many of them as you want to.
> However, the transaction history between all addresses is stored in the
> network FOREVER because it is technically necessary. There are several
> solutions available to this (CoinJoin, stealth addresses, ZeroCoin), and they
> are still under development.
> - The existing Bitcoin node implementations don't make any effort to NOT tell
> the other nodes which addresses belong to your IP. You still need to run it
> behind Tor to get true pseudonymous addresses.
> 
> Still, there is a huge incentive of making Bitcoin anonymous as it is by
> nature something which is interesting for governments to screw its users. So I
> would say we just have to wait for it to be anonymized, it will happen.
> 
> Greetings,
>       xor
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Devl mailing list
> [email protected]
> https://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
> 

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