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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Aardvark (Chris Anderson)
2. RE: Proposal: algorithm for forgetting documents in datastore (Neil
Barsema)
3. [Freenet-dev] RES: Freenet-dev digest, Vol 1 #978 - 2 msgs (Pedro
Ferreira)
4. List gone quiet (Ian Clarke)
5. Re: Using DOM for FProxy security (Ian Clarke)
6. Re: List gone quiet (Mr.Bad)
7. Re: Problems for splitting (Mark J. Roberts)
8. Re: Announcement Protocol (Oskar Sandberg)
9. Re: Aardvark (Oskar Sandberg)
10. Re: Aardvark (Ian Clarke)
11. Re: Aardvark (Oskar Sandberg)
12. Re: Killing Freenet (Re: [freenet-devl] Aardvark) (Oskar Sandberg)
13. Re: Problems for splitting (Oskar Sandberg)
14. Re: Problems for splitting (Ian Clarke)
--__--__--
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:04:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Anderson <[email protected]>
To: devl at freenetproject.org
Subject: Re: [freenet-devl] Aardvark
Reply-To: devl at freenetproject.org
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Mark J. Roberts wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Scott G. Miller wrote:
>
> > > An evil node can easily spoof a KSK. Plus someone else can
> > > easily steal
> > Only if he knows its text key or dictionary attacks it.
>
> Or (and I'm not sure about this) if the KSK in question is
> searchable, and thus AFAIK must have its own text key in public
> metadata. True or false?
KSK's do have a Document-name in public meta data, but it's a hash,
so someone who has compromised a node's datastore would still need to
dictionary attack the guessable key's hash in order to access the
KSK's data. The Document-name is necessary to bind the signature to
both the guessable key and the KSK's data. Without it, you wouldn't
be able to verify that the data belongs with the key.
--__--__--
Message: 2
From: "Neil Barsema" <[email protected]>
To: <devl at freenetproject.org>
Subject: RE: [freenet-devl] Proposal: algorithm for forgetting documents in
datastore
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:53:16 +0100
Reply-To: devl at freenetproject.org
Tavin wrote
>Dude!!! You just don't get it. If your node routes a request, there's
>no (necessary) relationship whatsoever with the key being routed and your
>node's keyspace focus. Granted, you should receive more requests that
>are close to your keyspace focus than not, but you'd still end up
>promoting lots of files that are far away from it.
Arrgh what do you mean no relationship !? That 'granted' bit is exactly the
relationship I'm talking about. O yeah just to clarify the routing decision
does *not* have to be succesfull to cause the bump of the corresponding
file.
>The closest we could come to making this make sense is, anytime your
>node successfully serves a file from its datastore, it looks for the file
>with the key closest to that one and promotes it. I hope you can see
>the flaw in that.
Yeah,I don't realy see a flaw in that. Remember my promotion is way smaller
than normal promotion (1 file oposed to the entire datastore). but I
imagine nodes routing requests much more often than serving files
So the effect of this would not be very great. I like the routing sollution
better but thanks for trying ;->
>> Basicly files competing against deletion are all pretty unpopular. Either
>> because they aren't close enough to the keyspace focus or because they
are
>> outright unpopular.
>>
>> What people don't seem te get is I am fighting for unpopular files!
>It's impossible! You can only end up reducing the percentage of successful
>requests over the whole network.
I don't like it when people use the I word with me ;-)
Anyway I don't think there will be a significant reduction in succesful
requests. in fact I can imagine an improvement because nodes will be
specializing more on their keyfocusses, there will be less dead wood to
distort requests.
>I'm sorry if my explanations have been less than clear, but if you consider
>how Freenet routing works for a while, you will come to the same
conclusions.
hm, I do believe I've been considering Freenet routing a bit longer than
you. So perhaps I should be appoligzing to you ;-)
Neil
--__--__--
Message: 3
From: "Pedro Ferreira" <[email protected]>
To: <freenet-dev at lists.sourceforge.net>
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:20:32 -0200
Subject: [freenet-devl] [Freenet-dev] RES: Freenet-dev digest, Vol 1 #978 - 2
msgs
Reply-To: devl at freenetproject.org
N=E3o eu uso um Windows (infelizmente)
See sabe alguma dica pra win, n=E3o d=E1 pra conectar mesmo e me explica =
como
funciona como mac mesmo , tento conectar l=E1 do trabalho mesmo
Abra=E7os
Pedro (the Huricane)
Hi eVeryone, Br at zil Will bre4k 4ll the $$$rules$$$
-----Mensagem original-----
De: freenet-dev-admin at lists.sourceforge.net
[mailto:freenet-dev-admin at lists.sourceforge.net]Em nome de
freenet-dev-request at lists.sourceforge.net
Enviada em: sexta-feira, 2 de fevereiro de 2001 18:02
Para: freenet-dev at lists.sourceforge.net
Assunto: Freenet-dev digest, Vol 1 #978 - 2 msgs
Send Freenet-dev mailing list submissions to
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You can reach the person managing the list at
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:
1. brazilian conspiracy (Bowkett, Giles)
2. Re: Duvida em portugues do Pedro (Elifarley)
-- __--__--
Message: 1
From: "Bowkett, Giles" <[email protected]>
To: "'freenet-dev at lists.sourceforge.net'"
<freenet-dev at lists.sourceforge.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:16:35 -0800
Subject: [Freenet-dev] brazilian conspiracy
Reply-To: freenet-dev at lists.sourceforge.net
> hey BRaz=3D3Diliam boys help me in portuguese , ok ?
>
>
> Valeu galera o Brazil impera !!!!
I ran this thru babelfish.altavista.com and got:
"We will force Freenet to bow to the might of the unstoppable Brazilian
empire!!"
I am terrified for the future of this project.
g
-- __--__--
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:53:06 -0200
From: Elifarley <[email protected]>
To: <freenet-dev at lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: [Freenet-dev] Re: Duvida em portugues do Pedro
Reply-To: freenet-dev at lists.sourceforge.net
on 1/31/01 6:06 PM, freenet-dev-request at lists.sourceforge.net at
freenet-dev-request at lists.sourceforge.net wrote:
> 1. RES: Freenet-dev digest, Vol 1 #976 - 1 msg (Pedro Ferreira)
> From: "Pedro Ferreira" <huricane at uninet.com.br>
> To: <freenet-dev at lists.sourceforge.net>
> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:14:00 -0200
> Subject: [Freenet-dev] RES: Freenet-dev digest, Vol 1 #976 - 1 msg
> Reply-To: freenet-dev at lists.sourceforge.net
>
> i'm trying too, but ican't connect, i need help ?
>
>
> hey BRaz=3D3Diliam boys help me in portuguese , ok ?
>
>
> Valeu galera o Brazil impera !!!!
Pedro, vc esta usando um Macintosh para se conectar ?
Se nao for Macintosh, eu nao posso te ajudar, mas se for, talvez eu possa.
Caso seja, me diga exatamente o q acontece depois q vc clica no icone do
MacFreenet.
Observe que o MacFreenet normalmente nao abre uma janela quando eh
executado. Para vc ver se realmente ele esta funcionando, de um clique du=
plo
no icone de nome "Freenet Gateway.url", para que vc acesse o FProxy.
-- __--__--
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End of Freenet-dev Digest
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--__--__--
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:54:46 -0800
From: Ian Clarke <[email protected]>
To: devl at freenetproject.org
Subject: [freenet-devl] List gone quiet
Reply-To: devl at freenetproject.org
--xPLL5cPndR2UZ7Mw
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Is it just me or has list traffic dropped significantly over the last
week or so?
Mr. Bad - are there any outstanding issues before we release 0.3.7? If
not, we should release. You are welcome to do the honours, but I am
happy to do it if not.
Ian.
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--__--__--
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 17:28:43 -0800
From: Ian Clarke <[email protected]>
To: devl at freenetproject.org
Subject: Re: [freenet-devl] Using DOM for FProxy security
Reply-To: devl at freenetproject.org
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On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 09:04:50AM -0500, Timm Murray wrote:
>=20
> Ian Clarke wrote on 1/28/01 11:27 pm:
> <>
> >Anyone fancy learning a new=20
> >language (actually it is just=20
> >Javascript)?
>=20
> OK, Mr. Plugins-won't-work-for-all-browsers.
Apples and oranges.
Ian.
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--__--__--
Message: 6
To: devl at freenetproject.org
Subject: Re: [freenet-devl] List gone quiet
From: Mr.Bad <[email protected]>
Organization: Pigdog Journal
Date: 02 Feb 2001 17:29:35 -0800
Reply-To: devl at freenetproject.org
>>>>> "IC" == Ian Clarke <lists at octayne.com> writes:
IC> Mr. Bad - are there any outstanding issues before we release
IC> 0.3.7? If not, we should release. You are welcome to do the
IC> honours, but I am happy to do it if not.
Only the Aardvark link on the gateway page, and I'll check that
later.
I'll release tonight.
~Mr. Bad
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
/\____/\ Mr. Bad <mr.bad at pigdog.org>
\ / Pigdog Journal | http://pigdog.org/ | *Stay*Real*Bad*
| (X \x)
( ((**) "If it's not bad, don't do it.
\ <vvv> If it's not crazy, don't say it." - Ben Franklin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
--__--__--
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 19:41:44 -0500 (EST)
From: "Mark J. Roberts" <[email protected]>
To: <devl at freenetproject.org>
Subject: Re: [freenet-devl] Problems for splitting
Reply-To: devl at freenetproject.org
On Fri, 2 Feb 2001, Timm Murray wrote:
> I've said this almost every time file splitting comes up, but
> I'll say it again.
>
> Some types of data do not split well. For instance, RPMs (before
> I found the light of Debian) segfault when I tried to use one
> that I had split. I don't know why, but we should find out before
> splitting becomes mandatory.
Nonsense. Hash the recombined file and compare with that of the original.
--
Mark Roberts
mjr at statesmean.com
--__--__--
Message: 8
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 03:03:10 +0100
From: Oskar Sandberg <[email protected]>
To: devl at freenetproject.org
Subject: Re: [freenet-devl] Announcement Protocol
Reply-To: devl at freenetproject.org
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 08:01:32PM +0100, Ruediger Kapitza wrote:
<>
> Whats wrong?
She has no more reason to trust the nodes she got from Bob's store than
the node he sends it to. Freenet does not have a node trust system,
trying to pretend it does will not solve the problems caused by that.
Besides, the point is that Alice is does not decide where the announcement
goes. And this misses the important role of the introduction as routing
space harmonizer, the nodes she get's from Bob1 would be effected by the
part of the keyspace he is biased toward, which may not be close to the
established value. And your showing the list of nodes to all the nodes,
not just Alice. I could go on...
--
'DeCSS would be fine. Where is it?'
'Here,' Montag touched his head.
'Ah,' Granger smiled and nodded.
Oskar Sandberg
md98-osa at nada.kth.se
--__--__--
Message: 9
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 03:07:03 +0100
From: Oskar Sandberg <[email protected]>
To: devl at freenetproject.org
Subject: Re: [freenet-devl] Aardvark
Reply-To: devl at freenetproject.org
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 08:17:39PM +0100, Sebastian Spaeth wrote:
> > > OS> For fucks sake people, YOU DON'T LINK TO KSKS! It's fucking
> > > OS> nuts!
> > >
> > > Why not? Jeez!
> >
> > What rock have you been under???
> Whoohoo not everybody can know all aspects of the keys without even
> having documentated them.
The keys are documented somewhere. And they have been discussed here a
lot.
> > Linking to a KSK means "I want to you to check out a document written by
> > anybody who wanted to place a document under the term <KSK value> which
> > may or may not be the same document I got when I requested that key."
>
> While I agree with you, we have to point the dangers of KSK keys more
> out to normal users. These reasons should e.g. be definitely be in the
> Freenet FAQ.
Umm, is this or is this not the development list? I don't think it's
unreasonable to expect more from people here (especially those who post a
lot and have a bunch of opinions) than just having read the FAQ.
> Sebastian
> P.S. This reminds me quite a bit of the current DNS system, where the
> cleartext->address converter is a point of weakness.
There is one good namespace. It's called hypertext.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://www.uprizer.com/mailman/listinfo/devl
--
'DeCSS would be fine. Where is it?'
'Here,' Montag touched his head.
'Ah,' Granger smiled and nodded.
Oskar Sandberg
md98-osa at nada.kth.se
--__--__--
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:14:02 -0800
From: Ian Clarke <[email protected]>
To: devl at freenetproject.org
Subject: Re: [freenet-devl] Aardvark
Reply-To: devl at freenetproject.org
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On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 12:05:15PM +0100, Oskar Sandberg wrote:
> How utterly depressing, widespread gratutious use of KSKs WILL KILL
> Freenet, and not even people here care...
I am sure you will charm them around to your way of thinking ;-P
Ian.
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Message: 11
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 03:08:50 +0100
From: Oskar Sandberg <[email protected]>
To: devl at freenetproject.org
Subject: Re: [freenet-devl] Aardvark
Reply-To: devl at freenetproject.org
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 06:00:45PM -0500, Benjamin Coates wrote:
> > From Mr.Bad <mr.bad at pigdog.org>
>
> >If you're suggesting only linking to CHKs, well, that's pretty wrong,
> >and I don't think you understand the thread. I don't think we have a
> >mechanism for doing date-based redirects with CHKs, unless I'm
> >grievously mistaken. Same goes for SVKs.
>
> Date based redirects do also work with SVKs.
But SVKs are pointless. There is no reason to use them.
--
'DeCSS would be fine. Where is it?'
'Here,' Montag touched his head.
'Ah,' Granger smiled and nodded.
Oskar Sandberg
md98-osa at nada.kth.se
--__--__--
Message: 12
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 03:15:43 +0100
From: Oskar Sandberg <[email protected]>
To: devl at freenetproject.org
Subject: Re: Killing Freenet (Re: [freenet-devl] Aardvark)
Reply-To: devl at freenetproject.org
On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 02:03:40PM -0800, Mr.Bad wrote:
> >>>>> "OS" == Oskar Sandberg <md98-osa at nada.kth.se> writes:
>
> OS> How utterly depressing, widespread gratutious use of KSKs WILL
> OS> KILL Freenet, and not even people here care...
>
> Really?! You think there's such a horrible misuse of KSKs that they're
> going to kill Freenet? We should be so lucky!
>
> Having so many people using Freenet that they get namespace
> clashes... having so much content in Freenet that we could have two
> files that would need the same name... Having data in Freenet that was
> so important that someone would try to use aging-out to spoof
> it... Having someone BOTHER to try to attack Freenet in the first
> place... Man, what a wonderful world that would be!
I'm quite aware of the fact that the network is not working very well, and
I'm quite pesimistic about whether it ever will, but there is really no
point in being here at all if not operating under the assumption that we
will get it to work some time...
--
'DeCSS would be fine. Where is it?'
'Here,' Montag touched his head.
'Ah,' Granger smiled and nodded.
Oskar Sandberg
md98-osa at nada.kth.se
--__--__--
Message: 13
Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 03:21:47 +0100
From: Oskar Sandberg <[email protected]>
To: devl at freenetproject.org
Subject: Re: [freenet-devl] Problems for splitting
Reply-To: devl at freenetproject.org
On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 09:04:51AM -0500, Timm Murray wrote:
> I've said this almost every time file splitting comes up, but
> I'll say it again.
>
> Some types of data do not split well. For instance, RPMs (before
> I found the light of Debian) segfault when I tried to use one
> that I had split. I don't know why, but we should find out before
> splitting becomes mandatory.
You're saying that reassembling the files into the exact same bytes still
ends up breaking them? I think you should try calling the media
industries, they have been pouring millions into trying to make that
happen.
You should probably also call God, because it's impossible...
--
'DeCSS would be fine. Where is it?'
'Here,' Montag touched his head.
'Ah,' Granger smiled and nodded.
Oskar Sandberg
md98-osa at nada.kth.se
--__--__--
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:30:27 -0800
From: Ian Clarke <[email protected]>
To: devl at freenetproject.org
Subject: Re: [freenet-devl] Problems for splitting
Reply-To: devl at freenetproject.org
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On Sat, Feb 03, 2001 at 03:21:47AM +0100, Oskar Sandberg wrote:
> You should probably also call God, because it's impossible...
I checked with God - he blames user error.
Ian.
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