On Monday 07 December 2009 12:51:24 Matthew Toseland wrote:
> On Sun, Dec 06, 2009 at 04:58:21PM -0600, Ian Clarke wrote:
> > This guy raises concerns about uninstalling Freenet:
> > 
> > http://truefalsebollox.blogspot.com/2009/11/freenet-users-watch-your-back.html
> 
> "First of all, there is talk in the scant guide offered with Freenet of ?a 
> panic button? ? I imagined something to hit if the heavy jackboots start 
> thudding up the stairs. What would the panic button do? Immediately wipe all 
> Freenet-associated files from my hard disk? Hmm, I don?t know, because I 
> couldn?t find the panic button in the copy I downloaded and ran. Even if 
> there was one somewhere, the fact that it isn?t under my nose means it 
> wouldn?t be much use in a hurry."
> 
> The "panic button":
> - Shows up on the downloads/uploads page.
> - Doesn't show up in LOW physical security level. You already said you have 
> nothing to hide, right? Maybe we should change this.
> - Wipes everything that might relate to incriminating data: the client cache, 
> downloads in progress etc (but not files already downloaded to disk, only 
> files downloaded to temporary space).

What documentation refers to the panic button? Maybe we could improve it...
> 
> IT EXPLICITLY DOES NOT DELETE FREENET ITSELF. Writing a portable 
> without-a-trace uninstaller is a seriously nontrivial project which we are 
> not competent to embark on, and it is outside our mandate.
> 
> "The uninstaller provided with each download merely removed the program files 
> from my Applications list into my Trash list. It did not remove them from the 
> computer."
> 
> This is some OS/X bull****. mrsteveman1 can you fix this?

Can we fix this?
> 
> "Further, even though I was running my browser in ?Privacy mode?, links to 
> Freenet ?keys? were stored in my browser Cache history."
> 
> Then your browser is defective! Privacy mode by definition should not 
> persistently store any trace of your browsing after you close it. If it does 
> IT IS NOT A MEANINGFUL PRIVACY MODE. If anyone is aware of browsers which 
> behave in this way, providing a dangerously false sense of security, please 
> let us know and we can warn users against them.

Maybe we should warn users about Safari? If the browser history is wiped on 
shutdown then I guess there's no problem?
> 
> "This is particularly worrying if you don?t bother to check, since the advice 
> from Freenet is to use a separate and dedicated browser ? meaning everything 
> in your cache will be freenet related. No need for anyone examining your 
> computer to sort through thousands of innocuous logs to find the Freenet 
> ones."
> 
> Any browser that stores cache or history on disk in plaintext for "privacy 
> mode" is broken by design and SHOULD NOT BE USED. The advice we give is based 
> on the simple fact that if you use the same browser, with the exception of a 
> meaningfu,l non-history-preserving privacy mode, for browsing the internet as 
> for browsing freenet, the internet sites you visit can probe your freenet 
> browsing history.
> 
> "Still, none of that is of as much concern as this: manually deleting Freenet 
> from my computer was not as simple as emptying the cache and Trash files. The 
> cache went into the trash, so to speak, but the Trash folder with Freenet 
> files in it could not be emptied from the desktop no matter what I did. Some 
> files had been automatically locked by Freenet, and the whole Trash 
> application froze trying to unsuccessfully delete them. In short, I had to do 
> a ?sudo? from the command line to forcibly remove them, a process that if you 
> don?t know how to do you?d better learn if you plan on using Freenet in a 
> hostile environment. I?d also say you?d better learn how to do it quick 
> (maybe write yourself a script), because wiping all trace of Freenet off my 
> computer took me the best part of an hour the first time I tried it."
> 
> This is more Mac bullshit. We should work around it.

mrsteveman1, any suggestions?
> 
> HOWEVER, there is a deeper fundamental fact here: No portable application is 
> going to wipe every trace of its presence when you uninstall it. It's just 
> not practical in terms of the amount of deeply platform specific work 
> involved. There are third party tools that may provide such functionality.
> 
> Or is it? Most unixes have "shred" now??
> 
> All this is a matter of poor documentation. However, better documentation 
> would involve more reading for the user and therefore put users off running 
> Freenet at all. Thus it is a largely unsolvable problem, apart from the OS/X 
> perversities which hopefully mrsteveman1 will have time to resolve.
> 
> So we cannot expect to tell the user the full range of things they need to 
> know to keep their privacy in the installer. The solution is to bundle a 
> README file that nobody will read, and then when somebody gets killed because 
> of our negligence we can say it was because they didn't read the README. Oh 
> and we can make it prominent by e.g. making it available from the web 
> interface.

Thoughts on this?
> 
> Thoughts?
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