If KiCad indeed becomes easier to package, we'll know what kind of spirit to thank, besides the personal free time itself.
Not the kind that comes in bottles, I hope 😊 Cheers! On Tue, 21 Mar 2023 at 00:16, Nimish Telang <[email protected]> wrote: > It's not the worst I've seen but it needs some maintenance. I’m going to > see if I can make it better. > > > > > That's a pretty strong <expletive> statement to come in with. KiCad has > used cmake since 2007. > > > CMake has changed A LOT in that time and it was actually a lot less > capable in the past. > > > Not to mention just being a mess across platforms compared to how well > it works now. > > > > Yep, but it’s hard to explain cmake script updates in the last, say, year > ignoring basic cmake features. Cmake has only recently become OK, > admittedly. > > > > It’s a strong statement since the system is in such a brittle state in > contrast to Kicad itself which is better than ever. > > > > · (Heck honestly at work, we wouldn't bother wasting our paid > labor on "zombie code" too unless it was an actual problem) > > > > Indeed, which is why it’s very, very odd that it’s being carried along. > > > > · The reason why we have forks of the find modules is because we > need to support more than your personal build. > > > > Quite so, but after bumping the version this is no longer a constraint. > Right now, kicad doesn’t support a native build on macOS without > considerable hoop-jumping and an entire repo of patched (and subtly buggy > in its own way, unfortunately) cmake code; it never supported my personal > build 😊 > > > > · Typically, the problem was certain Linux distros running behind > by quite a few years when it came to cmake versions. Ubuntu and Debian > being the biggest culprits. > > We cannot force those distros to download newer cmakes outside of their > package manager ecosystem. > > > > Given Kicad breaks user projects, scripts, and data with major upgrades, > I have little sympathy for maintaining compatibility for distro > maintainers. It’s their problem if they need to backport a modern cmake. > > > > · I'm just going to say you should invest in some liquor, but not > the top shelf stuff since you'll want a bunch. > > > > I’m in too deep already > > > > Nimish > > > > > > > > *From: *[email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Mark Roszko < > [email protected]> > *Date: *Sunday, March 19, 2023 at 9:59 PM > *To: *[email protected] <[email protected]> > *Subject: *Re: [kicad] Updating the build > > > . There's a lot of zombie code being carried in the Kicad repo for > unclear gain > > > > Welcome to the world of stuff that works and is low hanging fruit for a > bunch of people doing this out of their personal free time. > > (Heck honestly at work, we wouldn't bother wasting our paid labor on > "zombie code" too unless it was an actual problem) > > > > However, be warned, zombies do bite and go for the brain. > > > > > It's clearly been accreted over the years without a lot of understanding > of what cmake can do. > > > > That's a pretty strong <expletive> statement to come in with. KiCad has > used cmake since 2007. > > CMake has changed A LOT in that time and it was actually a lot less > capable in the past. > > Not to mention just being a mess across platforms compared to how well it > works now. > > > > > This also helps other systems since fewer stuff is added globally, and > there's less system-specific code in Kicad itself. > > > > The reason why we have forks of the find modules is because we need to > support more than your personal build. > > Typically, the problem was certain Linux distros running behind by quite a > few years when it came to cmake versions. Ubuntu and Debian being the > biggest culprits. > > We cannot force those distros to download newer cmakes outside of their > package manager ecosystem. > > > > Currently we have managed to bump that requirement to 3.21 luckily and > that's a pretty recent and big jump from the previous 3.12 for last year. > > > > > Kicad should not be this difficult to package. > > > > I'm just going to say you should invest in some liquor, but not the top > shelf stuff since you'll want a bunch. > > > > > > On Sun, Mar 19, 2023 at 4:11 PM Nimish Telang <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > The current Kicad build cmake code is a man-made horror beyond my > comprehension. It's clearly been accreted over the years without a lot of > understanding of what cmake can do. Admittedly cmake itself is the cause of > most of the horror, but we can do better. > > > > I'm no cmake expert, but a few days of fixing the code has yielded some > decent improvements. I expect more significant modularization changes to > happen as well as the dependency graph is made more explicit. There's a lot > of zombie code being carried in the Kicad repo for unclear gain, or for > reasons that no longer apply in 2023. > > > > Having to use kicad-mac-builder is also another pain to get kicad building > on a Mac, and it is gating my ability to improve Kicad itself. It works, > but isn't actually needed if the cmake is written correctly. This also > helps other systems since fewer stuff is added globally, and there's less > system-specific code in Kicad itself. > > > > I'll also look into rebuilding the install/bundle/app code, as that's its > own mess. Kicad should not be this difficult to package. > > > > Nimish > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "KiCad Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/490e5cea-ff23-4b23-948f-62e88876a916n%40kicad.org > <https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/490e5cea-ff23-4b23-948f-62e88876a916n%40kicad.org?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > > > -- > > Mark > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "KiCad Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/topic/devlist/VLosAq7pSxY/unsubscribe > . > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/CAJjB1qLBD%2BcCmo-VOmwODYNdzGuoFefb2YixO7FT%3DyPDJ59iPg%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/CAJjB1qLBD%2BcCmo-VOmwODYNdzGuoFefb2YixO7FT%3DyPDJ59iPg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "KiCad Developers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/BL3PR04MB79310672B76BC4B3920860B9A7809%40BL3PR04MB7931.namprd04.prod.outlook.com > <https://groups.google.com/a/kicad.org/d/msgid/devlist/BL3PR04MB79310672B76BC4B3920860B9A7809%40BL3PR04MB7931.namprd04.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "KiCad Developers" group. 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