On Jun 11, 2010, at 3:10 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote: > On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 12:46, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> On Jun 11, 2010, at 12:38 PM, Denis Gervalle wrote: >> >>> On Fri, Jun 11, 2010 at 09:33, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On Jun 11, 2010, at 9:23 AM, Denis Gervalle wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 22:50, Vincent Massol <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 10:45 PM, Vincent Massol wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Caty and all, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jun 10, 2010, at 4:09 PM, Ecaterina Valica wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For a while we've been discussing how the new Rights Management UI >> is >>>>>> gonna >>>>>>>> look like. After 5 prototype versions, we may have reached a >>>> conclusion. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please take a look at: >>>>>>>> *Prototype* >>>>>>>> >>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/Rights51Space >>>>>>>> *Explanations* >>>>>>>> >>>> http://incubator.myxwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Improvements/RightsProposal >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please cast your vote if this is gonna be the final Rights >>>>>> representation, >>>>>>>> so that we may start the implementation. >>>>>>>> my +1 >>>>>>>> Any feedback is welcomed and we can still added improvements to this >>>>>>>> version. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The current version is a collaborative work done by me, Denis >>>> Gervalle, >>>>>>>> Raluca Stavro, Alex Busenius, Roman Muntyanu and many others >>>> (Guillaume, >>>>>>>> Sergiu, Vincent, Thomas). Thanks everyone for participating in the >>>>>> process. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> +1 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I like it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One question: Why does it say on Rights51Space for the view right >> that >>>>>> "Allowed only for evalica" when view right is also allowed for all >> users >>>> in >>>>>> the Admin group? >>>>>> >>>>>> Other questions: >>>>>> >>>>>> * Why does that second column says "Users"? Shouldn't it be "Users and >>>>>> Groups"? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Well groups are also users at the end, but why not... >>>> >>>> The reason I mention this is because the first column says type and then >>>> you have "users" and "groups" and not just "users". It's for consistency >> and >>>> I think from a user POV they're both different things. >>>> >>>>>> * Why does the extended rights view is called "advanced"? For me it's >>>> not >>>>>> related to advanced or not advanced. It's just a folded view and a >> full >>>>>> view. A right contributed by some extension might be as important as >> one >>>> of >>>>>> the default rights. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Well, this is a point of view. The basic interface allow managing >> commons >>>>> rights, and will probably be the only view allowed for users that have >>>> not >>>>> their profile set to "Advanced" (like what is done for the edit menu, >>>> which >>>>> is only shown to advanced users) >>>> >>>> Yes this is exactly what I think is wrong. >>>> >>>> Whoever has the right to modify rights should see all rights. There >>>> shouldn't be a notion of advanced or not because additional rights are >> *not* >>>> advanced stuff. Actually to give an example, the programming right >> itself >>>> could be considered advanced while a new right such as "ability to post >>>> messages in a forum" would be a basic right. >>>> >>> >>> Our concern is simplicity, like the simplification done on the edit menu, >>> that became a simple button, preventing basic user to see objects, >>> classes,... Here, the goal is the same, provide a simplified interface >> for >>> the very basic rights that concern everyone and that could be understand >> by >>> all. >>> >>> Additionnal rights will be added by additional component, so >>> these additional rights will not be uniform across all wikis, and user >> with >>> basic knowledge of wikis will not be aware of all those rights. These are >>> not the basic rights you found on any wikis, and anyone understand >>> immediately. So, these are obviously advanced in my POV. ie: "Ability to >>> post a message in a forum" is for admin, not for a basic user editing a >>> page. >>> >>> Please, also note that changing a user from basic to advanced is in the >> user >>> profile a task that a user with edit write on himself could do. And that >>> even basic user may see current advanced rights status in a tooltips when >>> sets. So if a basic user understand its need of more advanced option, he >>> could go for advanced. >>> >>> Also note that current whoever could modify rights is whoever has edit >>> right. So many basic user could be in a situation that allows editing >>> rights. But currently, only advanced user has the menu option to access >> this >>> on a page. So, in practice, with the current skin, nobody will see the >> basic >>> only interface. >>> >>> Finally, if you like Caty proposal of using Extended instead of Advanced, >> we >>> can but that linking this to the advanced status of a user will be less >>> clear. But if you dislike my ideas, I am open to drop it, this was just a >>> proposal :) >> >> At this stage I don't like too much linking to the advanced status since it >> means some rights are simple and some are advanced and choosing which are >> simple and which are advanced is really difficult and depend completely on >> the use case at hand (see my example with the right to post to a forum for >> ex - I guess you could argue that the forum app would need to offer an admin >> UI that would allow to easily modify the rights for it but then there >> wouldn't be a single UI interface for changing the rights). >> >> But maybe I misunderstood something. >> > > Probably, since for me the separation is simple. Basic rights are those we > have already, View, Comment, Edit, Delete, Admin, and no more (Programming > is questionable).
This is my last try and if I'm not able to make my point come across I'll wait for others to comment on this: Take the "edit right" for example. You say it's a basic right. It's not more basic from a user POV than a "forum edit right". They are at the same level. The only difference is that one is "standard" while the other is an "extension". Thanks -Vincent > Their meaning are obvious, these are the minimal > requirement for viewing, commenting, editing and deleting documents on any > secured wikis. So these does not require any experience to be used, > especially at the page level, and these will be common on all XWiki > instances. Since we are designing a better Rights UI, I hope that we will be > able to show it to users with less technical knowledge. This is for me the > goal behind having a basic interface for these rights and user, appart from > showing a clear resume of common rights. > > Denis > > > >> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> >>> >>> Denis >>> >>> >>>> Thanks >>>> -Vincent >>>> >>>>> Right interface is complex, but access to it is also possible for >> simple >>>>> editors not only for admins. Those only need to manage read/write >> access >>>> to >>>>> their page, and those will not understand the ins and outs of the >>>> extended >>>>> rights. This is mainly why we see this as 2 different view of the same >>>>> stuff: a basic view, and an advance view. >>>>> You have a similar behavior in the right management interface of >> Windows >>>>> ACLs. >>>>> Note that in basic view, you have a summary icon (currently a lock, but >>>> this >>>>> should be improved) that shows if there is some advanced rights locally >>>> set. >>>>> The tooltips for this icon list the rights locally set and their >>>> allowance, >>>>> but does not allow changing them (in the sample, the allowance is not >>>> shown, >>>>> this is probably a mistake) >>>>> >>>>> Denis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks >>>>>> -Vincent >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Caty >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> p.s: former discussion about mocking process can be seen at >> [Proposal] >>>>>>>> Rights Management UI http://markmail.org/thread/zgzufskvhe6xt6ey _______________________________________________ devs mailing list [email protected] http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/devs
