> On 12 Apr 2016, at 16:18, Marius Dumitru Florea
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 5:12 PM, Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 4:09 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 12 Apr 2016, at 15:43, Marius Dumitru Florea <
>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 4:30 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Marius,
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 12 Apr 2016, at 14:56, Marius Dumitru Florea <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi devs,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need to decide what is the expected link reference serialization
>>>>>> produced by the WYSIWYG editor when you create a link to a wiki page.
>> I
>>>>>> think we have to choose between 3 options:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (1) Output untyped (ambiguous) link references whenever possible
>>>>>> (2) Always output unambiguous (typed) link references (both 'doc:' and
>>>>>> 'space:')
>>>>>> (3) Always output 'doc:' link references (no 'space:' references)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let's see the details:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> = OPTION 1: Output untyped link references whenever possible =
>>>>>>
>>>>>> == <7.2 ==
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link from A.B
>>>>>> * to A.WebHome (space home page) => [[WebHome]]
>>>>>> * to A.C (same space) => [[C]]
>>>>>
>>>>> I don’t understand why you’re using relative links in your 2 examples
>>>>> above. Option (1) says untyped, it doesn’t say convert links into
>> relative
>>>>> links.
>>>>>
>>>>> So for me that would be:
>>>>>
>>>>> * to A.WebHome (space home page) => [[A.WebHome]]
>>>>> * to A.C (same space) => [[A.C]]
>>>>>
>>>>>> * to X.Y (different space) => [[X.Y]]
>>>>>> * to X.WebHome => [[X.WebHome]]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> == 7.2+ ==
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link from A.B.WebHome
>>>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A]]
>>>>>
>>>>> Note 1: We could also imagine introducing a syntax for absolute links
>> such
>>>>> as [[:A]]
>>>>> Note 2: We could also imagine introducing a syntax for parent links
>> such
>>>>> as [[..A]]
>>>>>
>>>>>> * to A.B.C or A.B.C.WebHome or A.C or A.C.WebHome (child or sibling)
>> =>
>>>>>> [[C]] (very ambiguous)
>>>>>
>>>>> This is using a relative notation. But (1) is not about transforming
>> links
>>>>> into relative links.
>>>>>
>>>>> so for me this is:
>>>>> * => [[A.B.C]]
>>>>> * => [[A.C]]
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m stopping reading here since first we need to clarify if (1) is
>> about
>>>>> a) untyped or b) using relative references.
>>>>>
>>>>> IMO it should be about a) and doesn’t have to do b).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Maybe I misunderstood something?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Generating relative references is a must for me (whenever possible), no
>>>> matter what output format we choose. I'm surprised there's any doubt
>> about
>>>> this. The current WYSIWYG editor is generating relative references and
>> the
>>>> CKEditor should continue to do this. Relative references have many
>>>> advantages (eases the refactoring, allows you to export a hierarchy and
>>>> import it somewhere else, etc.).
>>>
>>> Didn’t realize the WYSIWYG was already doing this!
>>>
>>> Indeed there are pros. The cons is that it can make the linking more
>> ambiguous., but overall it’s probably a good thing.
>>>
>>
>>> Also note that ideally we’d need to not convert existing links when
>> going through the WYSIWYG editor. That’s true independently of this
>> discussion though.
>>
>>
>
>> This is handled by XML comments containing the source reference so the
>> only thing the WYSIWYG need to do is to not touch those comments
>> (unless the user explicitly modify the target of course).
>>
>
> It's already the case. The link reference is preserved as is unless you
> edit the link and apply the changes (i.e. you close the link dialog with
> the OK button).
Note that the majority of users will edit a link and click ok even if they
don’t change anything. An improvement would be to check for a difference in the
generated link.
What I was commenting on though was that if the user has chosen an absolute
format or a relative format and he changes some link-related data (label,
target location, etc), ideally the WYSIWYG would output a reference using the
same format (absolute or relative).
Thanks
-Vincent
> Thanks for the reply, I understand now.
>>>
>>>> So option (1) is about untyped relative links, option (2) is about typed
>>>> relative links and option (3) is about doc: relative links. In other
>> words:
>>>> (1) don't generate "doc:" and "space:"
>>>> (2) generate both "doc:" and "space:"
>>>> (3) generate only "doc:" (don't hide WebHome)
>>>
>>> I’ve now read again the first mail and I’m in favor of (2).
>>>
>>> The main reason for me is that we want to hide WebHome and with Nested
>> Pages, all links would have WebHome in them with option (3).
>>>
>>> Option (3) is really the worst for users: they get to see both “doc:”
>> and “WebHome” :)
>>>
>>> Also note that even option (2) is not perfect because of the “doc:” and
>> “space:” prefixes which are also hard to understand for users.
>>>
>>> I also know users who use both WYSIWYG and wiki editors (and who think
>> that WebHome is confusing - We’re used to it, but it’s really confusing if
>> you’re just starting to use XWiki - you don’t even understand what it means
>> at all).
>>>
>>> To summarize: +1 for (2).
>>>
>>> Note: My choice for (2) is based purely on a usability POV. It could be
>> that implementing option (2) is so much complex that it’s not worth it and
>> that we’d want to wait till we change the underlying model before changing
>> the linking syntax.
>>>
>>> Last note: Maybe we need to invent some completely new syntax for
>> linking since currently it has become very complex. I remember of any mail
>> where I proposed some new syntax for links using a different syntax such as
>> [[[…]]]. It could be interesting to spec a new simpler syntax such as:
>>> * Use “/“ instead of “.” (we already know that users would prefer “/“
>> since they’re more used to that symbol)
>>> * Leading “/“ means absolute. Example: [[[/A/B]]]
>>> * Use “..” for parent. Example: [[[..A/B]]]
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> -Vincent
>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Marius
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> -Vincent
>>>>>
>>>>>> * to A.B.C.D or A.B.C.D.WebHome (nested page two levels or more
>> below) =>
>>>>>> [[.C.D]] (ambiguous)
>>>>>> * to A.C.D or A.C.D.WebHome (nested page under sibling) => [[A.C.D]]
>>>>>> (ambiguous)
>>>>>> * to X.Y.Z or X.Y.Z.WebHome => [[X.Y.Z]] (ambiguous)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link from A.B (terminal)
>>>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A]]
>>>>>> * to A.C or A.C.WebHome (sibling) => [[C]] (ambiguous)
>>>>>> * to A.C.D or A.C.D.WebHome (nested page under sibling) => [[A.C.D]]
>>>>>> (ambiguous)
>>>>>> * to X.Y or X.Y.WebHome => [[X.Y]] (ambiguous)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link from A.B.C (terminal) or A.B.C.WebHome
>>>>>> * to A.B.WebHome (its parent) => [[A.B]] (ambiguous)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PROS:
>>>>>> * shorter link references
>>>>>> * hides WebHome from source syntax on 7.2+
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CONS:
>>>>>> * ambiguous link references
>>>>>> * complex code
>>>>>> * different output for <7.2 and 7.2+ in case of top level space
>>>>> [[WebHome]]
>>>>>> or [[A.WebHome]] vs. [[space:A]] (we need to check if support for
>> nested
>>>>>> spaces is available)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> = OPTION 2: Always output unambiguous link references =
>>>>>>
>>>>>> == <7.2 ==
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link from A.B
>>>>>> * to A.WebHome (space home page) => [[doc:WebHome]] (relative)
>>>>>> * to A.C (same space) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>>>> * to X.Y (different space) => [[doc:X.Y]]
>>>>>> * to X.WebHome => [[doc:X.WebHome]]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> == 7.2+ ==
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link from A.B.WebHome
>>>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A]]
>>>>>> * to A.B.C (terminal child) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>>>> * to A.B.C.WebHome (non-terminal child) => [[space:A.B.C]] (absolute)
>>>>>> * to A.C (terminal sibling) => [[doc:A.C]]
>>>>>> * to A.C.WebHome (non-terminal sibling) => [[space:A.C]]
>>>>>> * to A.B.C.D (terminal descendant) => [[doc:.C.D]] (relative)
>>>>>> * to A.B.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant) => [[space:A.B.C.D]]
>>>>>> (absolute)
>>>>>> * to A.C.D (terminal descendant of sibling) => [[doc:A.C.D]]
>>>>>> * to A.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant of sibling) =>
>>>>> [[space:A.C.D]]
>>>>>> * to X.Y.Z => [[doc:X.Y.Z]]
>>>>>> * to X.Y.Z.WebHome => [[space:X.Y.Z]]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link from A.B (terminal)
>>>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A]]
>>>>>> * to A.C (terminal sibling) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>>>> * to A.C.WebHome (non-terminal sibling) => [[space:A.C]] (absolute)
>>>>>> * to A.C.D (terminal descendant of sibling) => [[doc:.C.D]] (relative)
>>>>>> * to A.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant of sibling) =>
>>>>> [[space:A.C.D]]
>>>>>> * to X.Y => [[doc:X.Y]]
>>>>>> * to X.Y.WebHome => [[space:X.Y]]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link from A.B.C (terminal) or A.B.C.WebHome
>>>>>> * to A.B.WebHome (its parent) => [[space:A.B]] (absolute)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PROS:
>>>>>> * unambiguous link references ("what you link is what you get")
>>>>>> * slightly less complex code (but still complex)
>>>>>> * hides WebHome from source syntax on 7.2+
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CONS:
>>>>>> * longer link references (because of "doc:" and "space:" prefixes)
>>>>>> * cannot specify relative 'space:' references
>>>>>> * different output for <7.2 and 7.2+ in case of [[doc:WebHome]] vs.
>>>>>> [[space:A]]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> = OPTION 3: Always output 'doc:' references =
>>>>>>
>>>>>> == <7.2 ==
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link from A.B
>>>>>> * to A.WebHome (space home page) => [[doc:WebHome]] (relative)
>>>>>> * to A.C (same space) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>>>> * to X.Y (different space) => [[doc:X.Y]]
>>>>>> * to X.WebHome => [[doc:X.WebHome]]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> == 7.2+ ==
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link from A.B.WebHome
>>>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[doc:A.WebHome]]
>>>>>> * to A.B.C (terminal child) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>>>> * to A.B.C.WebHome (non-terminal child) => [[doc:.C.WebHome]]
>> (relative)
>>>>>> * to A.C (terminal sibling) => [[doc:A.C]]
>>>>>> * to A.C.WebHome (non-terminal sibling) => [[doc:A.C.WebHome]]
>>>>>> * to A.B.C.D (terminal descendant) => [[doc:.C.D]] (relative)
>>>>>> * to A.B.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant) => [[doc:.C.D.WebHome]]
>>>>>> (relative)
>>>>>> * to A.C.D (terminal descendant of sibling) => [[doc:A.C.D]]
>>>>>> * to A.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant of sibling) =>
>>>>>> [[doc:A.C.D.WebHome]]
>>>>>> * to X.Y.Z => [[doc:X.Y.Z]]
>>>>>> * to X.Y.Z.WebHome => [[doc:X.Y.Z.WebHome]]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link from A.B (terminal)
>>>>>> * to A.WebHome (its parent) => [[doc:WebHome]] (relative)
>>>>>> * to A.C (terminal sibling) => [[doc:C]] (relative)
>>>>>> * to A.C.WebHome (non-terminal sibling) => [[doc:.C.WebHome]]
>> (relative)
>>>>>> * to A.C.D (terminal descendant of sibling) => [[doc:.C.D]] (relative)
>>>>>> * to A.C.D.WebHome (non-terminal descendant of sibling) =>
>>>>>> [[doc:.C.D.WebHome]] (relative)
>>>>>> * to X.Y => [[doc:X.Y]]
>>>>>> * to X.Y.WebHome => [[doc:X.Y.WebHome]]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link from A.B.C (terminal)
>>>>>> * to A.B.WebHome (its parent) => [[doc:WebHome]] (relative)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Link from A.B.C.WebHome
>>>>>> * to A.B.WebHome (its parent) => [[doc:A.B.WebHome]] (absolute)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PROS:
>>>>>> * unambiguous link references ("what you link is what you get")
>>>>>> * relative references for nested non-terminal descendants
>>>>>> * same output for <7.2 and 7.2+
>>>>>> * simpler code (easier to maintain)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> CONS:
>>>>>> * doesn't hide WebHome from source syntax
>>>>>> * longer link references (because of "doc:" prefix and "WebHome"
>> suffix)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't like ambiguous links so I'm against option (1). I don't think
>> the
>>>>>> WYSIWYG editor users care too much about the wiki syntax (option 2),
>> as I
>>>>>> commented on http://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-13083, so I'm +1 for
>>>>> option
>>>>>> (3).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> WDYT?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Marius
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