Hi Edy, > On 25 May 2018, at 18:24, Eduard Moraru <enygma2...@gmail.com> wrote:
[snip] >>> Now, as Thomas mentioned, it would make more sense to implement it as a >>> Contrib extension (so that, in the near future, changes to reCAPTCHA >> could >>> be still used by older vesions; older as in stil using the new system, >> i.e. >>> 10.5+, but not the latest XWiki version), so the only solution to have it >>> as default as well would mean for the Standard Flavor to bundle the >>> reCAPTCHA implementaion, as a Contrib extension. (Vincent, insert "-1" >> here >>> :) ) >> >> So if we agree that captcha are only required in a public environment >> which has internet access then I think it would make sense to not have any >> Captcha implementation by default in XS and make it fully a contrib >> extension for those use cases (e.g. public web site use case). >> > > Remember that Registration and Comments both allow enabling Captchas > individually, so it's a feature that XS still needs, at least at the > API/configuration level. Yes, that’s what I mentioned below in my previous answer. Either at API level (but without an impl.) or as UIXPs and extensions. > > >> >> And yes I wouldn’t like to bundle another contrib extension in XS before >> we conclude on this topic (we started a discussion but didn’t finish it >> AFAIK). >> >>> --- >>> >>> Side Note: Taking an approach, in terms of Admin UI, that is similar to >>> what we did for Search (transition and choice from Solr to Lucene), with >>> configuration options specific to each implementation. >> >> One option is to have the captcha API could be in XS and no implementation >> provided by default and users would need to install an extension to get an >> implementation. >> > > Sure, however the problem with the current Captcha Module ( > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Captcha%20Module#HGettingthecaptchaimage > ) is that it is implemented with a Struts Action (bound in > struts-config.xml for "/imagecaptcha/“) I don’t see this point as a problem. You can just extract it and bundle it in a contrib extension and have some manual installation instructions to enable it, by modifying struts-config.xml. BTW what’s the new approach? Probably needs a new ResourceHandle to introduce a new URL type to validate captchas, right? > that anyone asking for a CAPTCHA > should use to generate the CAPTCHA image and use it in an <img > src=".../imagecaptcha/"/> tag. That makes it impossible to extract it as an > extension. This can be replaced by the call to the new URL type. The new resource handler would check which impl to use and it’s the old jcatpcha one, it would redirect to its /imagecaptcha/ URL for example. > So we have a backwards compatibility problem in the fact that we need to > keep supporting: > * Users of the "/imagecaptcha/" action > * Users of custom CAPTCHA systems, build on top of the old CaptchaVerifier > system ( > http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/Captcha%20Module#HHowaboutimplementingyourowncaptchatype3F > ) > ...and give them time to transition. > > Because of this, I plan to move everything found in the current > xwiki-platform-captcha module to xwiki-platform-captcha-jcaptcha-api, > together with the integration with the new system, and continue bundling it > in XS. This way, both implementations should still work. > > So we end up with the following layout: > > xwiki-platform-captcha > + xwiki-platform-captcha-api > + xwiki-platform-captcha-ui > + xwiki-platform-captcha-jcaptcha > ++ xwiki-platform-captcha-jcaptcha-api > ++ xwiki-platform-captcha-jcaptcha-ui > > captcha-recaptcha (contrib, depends on xwiki-platform-captcha) > + captcha-recaptcha-api > + captcha-recaptcha-ui My POV: * Don’t touch the old jcaptcha system and fully extract it to a contrib extension. And have instructions to install it in XWiki (with manual steps). * Introduce the new more generic captcha APIs and UIs in xwiki-platform but don’t bundle it in XS by default * Don’t provide any impl by default in XS either * Add a new contrib extension for recaptcha and have it depends on the new captcha API module from platform WDYT? Thanks -Vincent > > Thanks, > Eduard > > >> >> The other option is to introduce UIXP instead and fully move the code to >> the extension(s). >> >> Thanks >> -Vincent >> >>> --- >>> >>> Now, CAPTCHA is not enabled by default in XWiki, so admins still need to >> do >>> this. Once they enable it, if reCAPTCHA is the default, it won't work >> until >>> it's configured (with a Google API key, even for localhost). An >> interesting >>> thing we could do to avoid this problem and have the CAPTCHA not fail >>> completely, is to use Google's test keys (originally intended to not >> break >>> automated testing) by default which will make the CAPTCHA always >> validate, >>> while still being explicit that the configuration needs to be done. This >>> would make sure there is no friction in the process and we'll probably do >>> this by default for this implementation, regardless if we choose to use >> it >>> as XWiki's default or if it needs to be manually installed (from >> contrib). >>> >>> https://developers.google.com/recaptcha/docs/faq#id-like-to- >> run-automated-tests-with-recaptcha-v2-what-should-i-do >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Eduard >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> -Vincent >>>> >>>>> On 25 May 2018, at 08:51, Thomas Mortagne <thomas.morta...@xwiki.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I agree that the default captcha we provide should not depend on an >>>>> external service but it should just be a default. IMO the most >>>>> important is to make sure it's easy to choose a different captcha >>>>> implementation and we should most probably provide the Google one as >>>>> an option (through a contrib extension to better follow Google captcha >>>>> API evolution). >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, May 25, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Clément Aubin <aubincl...@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> On 05/24/2018 05:15 PM, Eduard Moraru wrote: >>>>>>> Question: >>>>>>> e >>>>>>> Do we need the captcha module to function without the DB as well? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This would make it more difficult to create the configuration UI (in >>>>>>> Administration) and would also mean that some captchas >> implementations >>>>>>> might not respect this constraint (i.e. choosing to implement their >> UI >>>> in a >>>>>>> wiki page instead). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> IMO, it's not really worth the trouble and we should proceed to >>>> extending >>>>>>> the current captcha module into 2 parts: -api and -ui (the current >>>> module >>>>>>> would be converted from "jar" to "pom" and the current code will be >>>>>>> deprecated and moved to the new -api module). >>>>>> >>>>>> The only reason we could not to depend on the DB would be to transfer >>>>>> parts of the captcha module to xwiki-commons IMO. For now, I don't see >>>>>> any particular use case that could support this migration. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Eduard >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 8:35 PM, Eduard Moraru <enygma2...@gmail.com >>> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, devs, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> XWiki's current CAPTCHA module [1] is very old and outdated for a >>>> while >>>>>>>> now and this is not news for anyone. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I see 2 major problems: >>>>>>>> 1) The obvious one is that we just need a technologically better >>>> CAPTCHA >>>>>>>> implementation that the current JCaptcha-based one and JCaptcha is >>>>>>>> discontinued. >>>>>>>> 2) The current architecture is outdated as well (i.e. wrapped around >>>>>>>> Struts actions and initializing the VelocityContext with a custom >>>> binding) >>>>>>>> and hard to use (i.e. you have to write your CAPTCHA UI every time >>>> you use >>>>>>>> it, there is no rendering helper). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For 1), as both determined a few years ago [2] and also observed >> from >>>>>>>> practice, the industry standard is now Google's reCaptcha service >>>> (either >>>>>>>> its v2 or invisible version, or both), so we definitely need an >>>>>>>> implementation that makes it easy to use in XWiki [3]. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> For 2), we need: >>>>>>>> * to allow CAPTCHA implementations to provide their own rendering >>>>>>>> ** Can be done using a template .vm file (rendered with the >>>>>>>> TemplateManager), a wiki page or directly from Java code. >>>>>>>> ** The implementation-specific parameters could be passed to >>>>>>>> control/customize a particular rendering. >>>>>>>> ** The syntax ID may not be needed, since the only relevant output >>>> would >>>>>>>> be html. >>>>>>>> * to move to a ScriptService-based system and to leave the resource >>>>>>>> (image/audio) accessing concern to the individual implementation >>>> (that may >>>>>>>> choose to continue with Struts actions, or may choose to use >> something >>>>>>>> lighter like a REST resource or even or even something more >>>> inventive, like >>>>>>>> temporary attachments on some fixed page). >>>>>>>> * an administration UI that configures the default CAPTCHA service >>>> and its >>>>>>>> configuration >>>>>>>> * to allow callers to use a different CAPTCHA than the default >>>> configured >>>>>>>> one, as long as it is available (i.e. installed) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Examples: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> = Display >>>>>>>> $services.captcha.display() -- default implementation, current >>>>>>>> configuration >>>>>>>> $services.captcha.recaptcha.display() -- explicitly requested >>>>>>>> implementation, current/default configuration >>>>>>>> $services.captcha.recaptcha.display({'theme' : 'dark', 'size' : >>>>>>>> 'compact', 'sitekey' : 'xyz'}) -- explicitly requested >> implementation >>>> and >>>>>>>> custom configuration overwrites >>>>>>>> $services.captcha.jcaptcha.display() -- other implementation, >>>>>>>> current/default configuration >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> = Verification >>>>>>>> $services.captcha.isValid() -- default implementation, current >>>>>>>> configuration >>>>>>>> $services.captcha.recaptcha.isValid() -- explicitly requested >>>>>>>> implementation, current/default configuration >>>>>>>> $services.captcha.recaptcha.isValid({'secret' : 'xyz'}) -- >> explicitly >>>>>>>> requested implementation and custom configuration overwrites >>>>>>>> $services.captcha.jcaptcha.isValid() -- explicitly requested >>>>>>>> implementation and custom configuration overwrites >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Basically, the ScriptService API would be highly simplified to just >>>>>>>> displaying and validating, while the components would consist of 2 >>>> parts: >>>>>>>> * a generic Manager for the various implementations (listing, >>>>>>>> getting/setting the default) >>>>>>>> * various implementations, each responsible with rendering a >>>> form-friendly >>>>>>>> CAPTCHA input and using the current request for extracting the >>>> information >>>>>>>> they needs to read the user's answer and validate it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WDYT? >>>>>> >>>>>> I do agree that JCaptcha is getting quite old now, however, we might >>>>>> have a hard time finding new FOSS and self-hosted captcha solutions >> (at >>>>>> least, there's not a lot of interesting artifacts on maven central >> [1]). >>>>>> >>>>>> IMO, we shouldn't rely on a captcha using an external verification >>>>>> service (such as Google's captchas) as we might end up blocking users >>>>>> that access their wiki with a filtered / controlled internet access. >> One >>>>>> option could be to provide a challenge which asks the user to perform >> a >>>>>> simple math operation, or respond to a control question instead, but >> I'm >>>>>> not convinced of the efficiency of those solutions against real >>>>>> captchas. As a captcha is usually quite simple to implement (apply >>>>>> operations on a text written in an image in order to make it >>>>>> non-readable by OCR software), we could also support our own version, >>>>>> maybe based on the generation mechanism given by JCaptcha. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Clément >>>>>> >>>>>> [1] https://search.maven.org/#search%7Cga%7C1%7Ccaptcha >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Eduard >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ---------- >>>>>>>> [1] http://extensions.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Extension/ >>>> Captcha%20Module >>>>>>>> [2] http://design.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Proposal/ >>>> CAPTCHAinvestigation70 >>>>>>>> [3] https://jira.xwiki.org/browse/XWIKI-12964 >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Thomas Mortagne
