On 15/05/2011 22:46, Alexander wrote:
On 15.05.2011 23:05, Nick Sabalausky wrote:
And like I said at the beginning, the old-style-PHP/ASP of mixing
code and HTML is one of the things that *HAS* become widely
accepted as bad practice.
Could you please back your claims with something? I know already that
you are the kind of person who knows better, and you are used to
speak for everyone, but that's just words.
I can't be bothered collecting lots of references, but having done web
development both professionally (not as much as Nick) and
non-professionally, I can tell you that it *is* widely accepted as bad
practice.
I've found the people that don't agree with that are either (reasonably)
new to web development, or don't really know what they're doing.
Just because there are some amateurs and incompetent
"professionals" around that still don't know any better doesn't
change that fact.
And you are professional? Show me something that is professional, so
I can learn.
Ugh, I never could stand that hippie rhetoric. Despite what
society's been brainwashed into believing, there *ARE* opinions out
there that are just plain moronic, and yes, *wrong*.
And yours is always *right*? ;)
Meet the seasoned web developer - 99.9% of other web developers are
idiots who can't code, and anyone who does it differently to you is wrong.
After a certain amount of time working with the web, and several code
bases that started as quick hacks to get the job done but evolved into
entire websites with a good few users, you realize that most of the code
out there is terrible. It gets the job done, sure, but it takes a lot of
effort to debug or add new features. Anything you add to the code base
just makes it harder to maintain, even if you start writing things
properly. Want to re-factor something? Chances are you can't do it
without breaking something.
If you're curious, add:
error_reporting(-1);
To the start of most PHP applications, and see the large number of
notices/warnings/errors which scroll past in your error log - over time
the PHP developers (not developers that use PHP) have realized how many
things can go wrong (register_globals, magic_quotes, safe_mode, etc),
and added more warnings, notices and errors which aren't shown by
default. I've encountered a good few developers which have said I
shouldn't have enabled it and it's not their problem when working with
their code. Note that things like wordpress use error_reporting()
elsewhere, so adding error_reporting(-1); won't make any difference as
it will be overridden.
Of course, I'm not saying Nick is always right (I happen to disagree
with him on a few things, just mention javascript to him to see what I
mean :D), but you now have 3 developers with varying experience with the
web telling you it's not the right thing to do. Sure, it's fantastic for
quick sites, nice and fast to put something together... But when it
evolves into a something bigger it will be a nightmare. Using a decent
framework is just as fast, and it's easy to maintain later on.
As for using D for web development... I'd use it even without a web
framework, purely for the maintainability/error reporting issues
mentioned earlier on. There are no frameworks available that I'm aware
of other than Adam's currently (which I believe he's using
professionally, so it has to be reasonably good), but something is
better than nothing. I'm also working on my own, progress is slow though
due to time constraints. Give it a few months and it might be workable.
/Alexander
Seems I managed quite a rant there. Oops :D
--
Robert
http://octarineparrot.com/
